So have your private school fees been worth it?

[jeanne16]

Just that exactly? Both my DCs have been through private London schools all the way through from Reception to 6th Form and although they have both done very well ( eldest now at Cambridge, younger about to go to very good RG), I can't help wondering if it has been worth the money.

I am currently wondering if we could have done things differently. We have spent an enormous amount of money on school fees that could perhaps have gone on other things. Could we have tried harder to get them into decent state schools, particularly at primary level?

Your thoughts?

I guess the answers will be split by two groups.

A- Those for whom school fees were completely inconsequential, so it doesn't matter how much additional 'value' (whatever currency that value comes in, to you) you get from it.

B- Those for whom private school meant massive sacrifices, who did it because they wanted their DC to move in circles they otherwise wouldn't have, to get top jobs, marry 'well', etc etc.

Group B will probably be less happy if the outcome is that their DC do 'average' jobs, marry normal people, for example. And they may feel it's not been worth it.

Independent boarding schools provided experiences and opportunities for my DDs that were not available locally. I don't regret it. We are not penniless as a result and our DDs are well provided for. Our decision was not purely about educational results. It was about being able to enjoy activities that interested them, making life-long friends and being part of a very supportive community. We live in a selective county. The grammar schools are ace, many of the secondary schools are not. Fantastic school for one, pretty average (RI again) for the other! We decided to treat them equally and not divide them because one was more intelligent than the other.

"...as the mainstream state system doesn't seem to cater for the brighter kids - I am not saying that to be mean to those whose kids are not bright, just the opposite, resources in the state sector are directed at those who need help."

And that assessment is based on what exactly pettswood? Clearly not any actual experience.

Lots of incredibly bright children being extremely well catered for at my child's school, but I guess blanket assumptions and lazy stereotypes make better reading.

Good state schools meet children where they are; they challenge them, inspire them, teach them, nurture them and encourage them to aim as high as they can. Some independent schools do this too!

I was always opposed to private ed - but my DIL decided that my DGD would go private at aged 11. My son would have been happy with the local comp but DiL was having none of it. SO DGD started in Yr 7 at a small girls only school (12 in the class) and I have to say she's been very happy there and appears to be thriving. Her parents are both teachers so sacrifices have been made. The only thing is that ALL the other girls come from wealthy families and so come holiday times, they are all off to foreign parts (ski-ing at Feb half term) and away most of Easter holidays and come summer they are off to their villas and more exotic places, African Safaris, Disney Land in Florida etc. This means that my DGD doesn't get to spend time with her school friends in the holidays, and I think that's a big disadvantage. She doesn't seem to mind at all and is happy with her week in Aberdovey, and a week in Ireland to see relatives. Occasionally there has been a week in Spain. But when I see groups of teenage girls around and about in the holidays I think that's what DGD should be doing. She's an only child too, but is part of a big extended family on her mom's side.

DGD says the girls don't say "Are you going on holiday" they say "where are you going on holiday" but she stresses that they never brag about their holidays, but of course they don't because this is normal life for them. They also live in huge houses, gated places, some with fields and ponies in the paddock ..... you get the picture. Some girls have 2 or 3 sisters in the school and in one case there are 4 sisters there.

I was hoping she would leave after GCSE and go to the 6th form college to mix with ordinary kids, but she's keen to stay on and her parents have agreed, though she says she hasn't made up her mind yet, but I know she wants to stay on. She's academically bright and works hard and will do well but I think she probably would have done well at the local comp and would have mixed with girls whose lives were much like her own.

Just another take on this issue..............

hey nananina I remember you from the mental health threads (I used to be boschy and you prob wont remember me anyway) how are you doing?

It can vary hugely and the key is finding the right school, and peers, for your DC. DD is at a small private which does really well for bright kids (there's an entrance test), particularly those who don't fit mainstream for some reason. DD has aspergers and hates big environments, also has severe anxiety and can't cope with teachers that don't know her. State schools here (near Detroit) have had funding slashed and there is no support for a child, even with a diagnosis, unless they are really behind academically. There's also no funding for bright kids. So, DD was being left out by the system twice over.

Her teachers in state school were doing their best, but there was just no money to give her help or to extend her academically. I got a job at the private school (almost accidentally) then decided to move her to it as I could see how much more support she would get, and it was vastly more convenient.

I probably wouldn't have bothered in the UK.

Having started this thread I guess I should add that I suppose it does depend on what your local state schools are like. For us, unless you are a church goer ( or become one for the relevant period), or you embark on the frenetic tutoring required to get into grammar schools ( in our case, Tiffin, where approx 1000 pupils are tutored for 150 places), then the rest of the state schools in our area are grim. I am not saying all state schools are grim, but I think we live in are in an area that is not well served.

So, I think if I had the time again, I would move house as someone above suggested. But that has a cost too! It is not easy!

I have tried 3 types of Schools with my DC; private for the early years, state schools up to year 8 then super selective Grammar. I don't regret any of these decisions, however my DC prefer by far their experience in the state sector....they find it more honest. I agree with them :)

Super selective grammars are state schools Mel2Mel!

I ask myself the same question sometimes, although from a different time and place. My DD (year 8) was in private for primary school, then we switched to a state school for secondary as we predicted the fees were just going to be too much of a struggle. As things have turned out for us, we could have managed the fees, and I'm finding in my own experience that even a highly rated state school is fundamentally not as good as a private school where there is more individual attention, and much more atmosphere of encouraging rather than holding back kids. If I knew what I know now, I think I would have chosen to stay private, but I don't think there is an obvious huge advantage one way or another and I don't think we made a big mistake. I don't know if the difference is worth 75,000-105,000.

(We might consider private sixth form if it seems possible)

If you want to look at it in just financial terms, a while ago I did see a news piece about research done comparing the earnings of privately versus publicly educated people, controlling for other factors like parental income and geographical location, to give an estimate of the actual difference attributable to the schooling. The estimated difference was large, but less than the amount that would have been spent on private school fees (even before you take into account present versus future value of money). But I don't imagine many people are really making a decision based on hard finances like that.

In the end it's one of those things where you just do not know where the road not travelled would have led you, and it's probably best to try to resist this kind of futile wondering as much as possible.

Things turned out fine for you, try not to worry about it

notinminutenow sorry I wasn't very precise.
I have tried 3 types of Schools with my DC; private for the early years, state schools non selective up to year 8 then state super selective Grammar. I don't regret any of these decisions, however my DC prefer by far their experience in the state sector....they find it more honest. I agree with them

Yolofish hello - I'm still on the MH boards!! Sorry no I don't remember you but PM if you like........sorry don't want to hi-jack the thread.

Is there a correlation between those who have just spent 7-13 year of fees (times number of children) feeling some regret and the rise in property prices over the same period (say last 10-20 years)?

I keep hearing, reading and feeling the sense that we are the generation that will have had it "the best" and our children and grandchildren will really struggle to be as valued in society, paid as well and afford the same lives as our parents did for us and we do for our children.

It sounds like this is just one more symptom of that feeling manifesting as "should have bought them flats in London" instead.

Bleak ......

I think if I had the time again, I would move house as someone above suggested. But that has a cost too!

But if you had put the money spent on school fees into your houses instead you would have made a financial investment and got a substantial return on your money. Instead it's just been spent with no return except the personal gains you perceive your child(ren) to have received from their education.

I think no return is subjective. However this captures perfectly what is wrong with the argument that the abolition of private schools will level the playing field for kids. Those who can afford to, if there were no private schools, will simply use the money to create a different kind of privilege for their kids e.g investing in homes for them.

Whats done is done.

Also, it's good that those who can afford to are sharing their wealth by paying the wages of ordinary working folk.

It's a bit like buying a car. You can spend £3,000 or £30,000 on a car and both will get you from 'a' to 'b'. However, it makes a lot of difference to the sales person on commission if the wealthy happily part with their cash, rather than invest it and keep their profit to themselves.

Fairenuff

I agree with the principle of spending as a means of wealth distribution, but recent history is against this actually happening. Wealth is very much in the hands of a tiny elite population of individuals and corporates and their pool of wealth is increasing at everyone else's expense. A quick glance at the Times Rich list or Apple's cash pile shows you the tip of that iceberg.

iPhones are a classic example. The profit margins are huge. Not only are the factory workers paid a pittance , the component suppliers, logistics companies and retailers are not doing well out of it either (note how Apple changes them once they lose too much money on the deal to be able to supply quality). Go ask a salesperson in a phone shop how much commission they make on a £500 phone they sell .... I'm genuinely interested.

Wealth creation is more concentrated in few hands than in living memory.

Whether it’s worth it depends on what your choices are in terms of state schools and the individual child. If you have a good state school and your DC is bright I suspect most middle class children will achieve roughly the same result as they would have done at a private school. Indeed, looking at my own (admittedly all middle class) relatives, those who went through the state sector went on to better universities including one who went to Cambridge from a rough comprehensive. For example last year LU showed 20 pupils going to Oxbridge out of around 150 which is a rate of say 13%. Given the very selective intake, would it be surprising if 13% of the pupils -some of the cleverest in West London at age 11- had gone to Oxbridge if they had attended state schools? I would argue that often you can tell by the age of 11 what the future academic success of a child is likely to be as long as their next (state or private) school is reasonably good, particularly since everyone seems to use tutors now anyway. What is most difficult IMO is what to do if your child is not particularly bright. Do you send him/her to a small private school in the hope that more individual attention will produce better grades or because private schools have more extra- curricular activities which may bring out other (non-academic) talents? Or do you take the view that this is a waste of money if there is a good state alternative?

Also, it's good that those who can afford to are sharing their wealth by paying the wages of ordinary working folk.

Are you for real Fairenuff

I think that the children who see the most 'value added' from Independent schools are usually those who are not the most able. Children who might have been borderline to pass/get good GCSEs in a state school, where they might sink into obscurity in a big class or be allowed to Coast or be distracted are less likely to slip through the net. In a independent where the general expectation (and pressure on staff) is for high achievement, the weaker student will be coaxed through, the idle one kicked up the backside to work, and also motivated by their peers working and an all round expectation of success.
For parents with a child who isn't top notch (in the nicest possible sense) and who might do poorly or achieve at an average level for whatever reason, it seems less likely (although clearly not impossible) to happen in Independent, and that sense is more 'worth' it.

I agree that many bright children might achieve as good academic results in a state school, but parents might decide it has been 'worth it' if their experience has been a positive happy one to get the great results, as opposed to a daily struggle in an atmosphere that can sometimes resist and undervalue academic progress - yes the very bright may still achieve well in such an environment, but many parents would prefer that they didn't have to face that daily struggle, so the learning experience itself makes it worth it.

If the result of paying fees is that there has been no contribution to a pension or other sacrifices that mean the parents will live their retirement in poverty, I would say it's not worth it.
Sacrifices - fine....to a point. I would go without luxury holidays, new cars or a bigger house. I wouldn't be prepared to go without a holiday of any description, having to extend my mortgage into old age, or relying on a state pension only in old age.

An interesting one is the impact paying fees has on the age of retirement. When any of us started working, we thought we'd retire at 60. Pensions are not doing so well, or the age of payout has been increased, meaning to still retire at 60, people need to make alternative extra provision for perhaps 5-7 years - this might not be possible if fees are being paid, meaning the need to work until 65 or 67. Not appealing, and perhaps one of those things which once we are of that age and still having to work (years after the kids have left school) we might wonder if the fees were really worth it - for some the sacrifice isn't the holidays now, but the having to work longer at the end of our careers.

Very timely as we are debating private or state and should we forgo private and use the money for house deposits for dc's.

If money was no object I would do private education but it will mean sacrifices and I worry about our pension. A good state education can provide an excellent education but without the frills so leaning towards state and make the cash available to the dcs when older.

My geeky dyslexic son who struggled at his state primary thrived at his private secondary ( no choice of secondary school as small town Scotland). My daughter chose the local state secondary and is thriving there but doesn't have dyslexia (small classes and no naughty kids using up the teacher's attention made a huge difference here) and isn't as geeky.

Worth it for me because it meant my DCs (at primary level) went to schools they liked and which made them excited about learning.