So have your private school fees been worth it?

[jeanne16]

Just that exactly? Both my DCs have been through private London schools all the way through from Reception to 6th Form and although they have both done very well ( eldest now at Cambridge, younger about to go to very good RG), I can't help wondering if it has been worth the money.

I am currently wondering if we could have done things differently. We have spent an enormous amount of money on school fees that could perhaps have gone on other things. Could we have tried harder to get them into decent state schools, particularly at primary level?

Your thoughts?

I went to a private girls day school. Dh went to a boys boarding school. Both went to uni, Dh went to Oxbridge. Both in very ordinary jobs.
We both feel that our parents wasted their money, and that any supposed advantages we had were outweighed by the disadvantages.

We chose to send our dc to the local comprehensive. We've never regretted that choice.

All the children where we live go to the local comprehensive. Several of our neighbours children are now at Oxbridge, others are at RG unis, and others are doing local jobs, apprenticeships etc. They all seem fairly well rounded adults.

I don't think anyone is demonising public school confidence, TheWordFactory - just asking what it actually IS. How would you define confidence? And what makes you think it's a public school thing?

The so called "public school confidence" is generally a matter of family background and accent rather than schooling. Unfortunately accent still matters , particularly in companies with an international element. DH- who was privately educated and used to work at large international companies/firms- says colleagues and clients never asked him where he went to school but several assumed he was posh from his accent and it was generally an advantage. Similarly I had always assumed that one of DH's friends who went to Cambridge and is very confident/has a posh accent had been at a top private school only to discover that (although from a professional background) he went to a rough comp.The truth is that children from wealthier/professional backgrounds tend to be better spoken and more confident and since private school children comprise the wealthiest 5-10% is it any wonder that they seem the most confident?

My view is that very few people are as confident as they come across, which is why I was interested in CookieDoughKid's view that she was not as confident as the people with whom she worked. I was also interested that she attributed this lack of confidence to her comprehensive school, not to numerous other possible suspects! And also interested that she felt a superselective grammar school would solve the problem she feels she is suffering from.

On MN confidence is A Good Thing but public school confidence is the work of baby eating serial killers .

And that's why the posh boys have a free run at things.

It seems to me, TheWordFactory, that some people are keeping themselves in their place with the idea that they went to inferior schools and are therefore marked out for life as inferior and lacking in confidence, not with the idea that public schools are immoral.

I agree it's a certain sort of confidence that is unpalatable. When it turns to arrogance, or when it is at others' expense.

Some privately educated people have this, some don't. Less state educated people have it, but some do.

I went to an awful, awful school and I am super-confident .... because that was the only way to battle through the daily carnage. Bloody charitable status though ... I mean, we are subsidising the booze for Eton's cheese and wine soc.

Well we are totally fed up with our state school, seriously contemplating remortgaging the house to afford our dd a better education. I can't see a alternative route, can't move because of job, no other better comp in the area, the only thing thats standing in our way is the worry that it may put undue pressure for dd to do well for us as she might feel bad we have sacrificed so much for her. We told her we don't want her to feel that way but can't help but wonder if it will. She is year 9 so 4 year fee commitment. Its not going to be hard on us financially per month, cost will be the same however, extending the years on our mortgage to fund it. Reading through this thread it does seem like private education gives alot of advantages further down the line.

It's such a hard one isn't it? I really think that it depends a lot of the child but also on where you live.
I can see oddles of threads here saying that you could send your dc to a grammar school instead of private, church school instead etc...

The reality for some people is that there is no choice.
We have a few private around here.
No grammar school (the closest one is about 30 miles away)
Our 'good' state school still have 'low ish' results ie they are counting on the fingers of one hand the number of peopel who went to Oxbridge or an RG Uni. Actually 80% of students went to local Uni (None are RG).
Statisticall the chances of my dcs to then go to an RG Uni (which they are capable of, dc1 is expected a level 6 for the SATS in maths, SPAG and reading...)
So the choice for us is private school which we would REALLY struggle to afford or our local comp with so called good results (well they are compare to the ones around but not nationally if that makes sense).

I fully agree with CookieDoughKid. State school is geared to acheive 'average' results, not to excel.A few of the teachers that I have talked to agreed on that too. The system itself isn't geared towards acheiving excellence, nor is it to put high levels of expectations ionto the dcs.

Since my dcs have started primary, I have put a lot of effort into trying to teach them that having the right answer is enough. Prensation is essential. As is spelling *(out of the spelling test) and the ability to explain how you arrive to that result. At no point have they been taught that. None until Y6 when suddenly it is seen as actaully important but no one is there to teach them how to do it (nor do they give them the tools. Eg the papers for the SATS doesn't allow space for doing the working out nor are the children allowed a piece of paper to 'try it out' before writting the answer down).

On the other side, my schooling was only geared towards excellence (different country) and it shows. It shows in an ability to be efficient and straight to the point, to present an argument, to know the importance of a clear presentation. All the things that Cookie was been mentioning and are completely missing in the professional people I've worked with.

The issue for me is the following. I know I can (and in some have already) taugh some of these skills to my dcs. I have the chance to be able to do so. But is it enough?
Is the ability I have to try and widen their horizon enough for them to acheive what they want (and be the best in what they chose to do)? or do they need other inoput such as the one from a pruivate school?
It's just impossible to know in advance I think. You can only guess and I suppose that some times you will guess well and sometimes you will spend a lot of money for little gain at the end.

Sorry. It should read
that having the right answer is NOT enough. Presentation is key...

rabbit in my exsperience, when you are taught that standing up to do a presentation is to be feared and not something you can do and excell in, then you end up not feeling confortable doing it.

It's not an issue with self confidence or whatever else. It's the fact that when you have spend all your formative years been told that you don't need to be that brilliant or actually it's frown upon (I just have to think about the reaction of dc1 classmates to his explanations on science etc. Or the ones from the teachers themselves to know that being curious, knowing a lot, trying to solve problem is seen as 'weird' and 'undesirable'). And that stays with you.

I know that some of the things that my DC are encouraged to do at school would make many scream 'entitiled' 'arrogant' etc

But frankly, there are many times in my working life I have to be extremely entitled and arrogant. I couldn't do what I do otherwise.

Ooh. Do tell us what your DC are encouraged to do, TheWordFactory!

Oh yes theWord please tell us I have a feeling I wouldn't find that that arrogant either

Not a chance .

I'd have the examples quoted back at me for the next 100 years on MN by the Usual Suspects.

TheWord would you mind pming those? I'm really interested to try and see the real difference between the two systems And hopefully it will help me decide what is best for dcs too.
(Fully understand why you don't want to btw)

Spoil sport! I doubt I would find it arrogance, unless they are encouraged to list all the reasons why they believe that only a public school education prepares you for public life.

rabbitstew. Agree, much of the extra curricular should and could have come outside of school. But who were my role models? I had none. My teachers were too busy trying to control the boys and girls who misbehaved. Class of 30kids, I used to sit at the front of the class to try and hear the teacher. I would say his/her time spent teaching in an average hour was probably less than 10mins at my local city London comp and this was less than 15 years ago.

My parents don't even know who Mozart is and we had no money to spend on music or sports tuition.

My group of friends wanted to hang out on the streets and stealing was considered an achievement.

As a 16 year old, I wouldn't even know HOW to get the extra curricular even if it was free. I had no idea what was available. Nothing was advertised at school and at home, our priorities were food and clothes.

This state comp is still running and you might be one of the unlucky ones sending your children there. Its whole unfair. Bring back grammar schools so I could get a free education with peers who actually want to learn. Sorry I don't mean to start a debate on grammar.

My experience of grammar school was that not everyone wanted to learn, and not everyone who wanted to learn wanted to be academic. Unfortunately, therefore, grammar schools don't cater for everyone who wants to learn and they can destroy the confidence of perfectly capable, intelligent people. That said, my grammar school suited me down to the ground, it just didn't work its wonders on many of my friends. Grammar schools would help only a very small number of people, the vast majority of whom have parents who know who Mozart is. I remain unconvinced, therefore, that grammar schools would solve much and I do think they would make things worse for those who don't get into them.

magnificentfour you nailed it exactly about the formative years. It stays with you for life. I can hold a stage but I had 10years of precessional work and training to help me turn my confidence around..its just hugely more effort and tiring for me.

I meant professional not processional. Crappy phone.

magnificent are you in the same boat as us contemplating private education? I feel you really understand where we are coming from. We are not religious so can't send dd to the good catholic school near us. There's no grammar schools within a 40 mile distance. Dd school is classed as the best out of the bad lot.

If I could feel any optimism for the state school dd attends its literally vanished on hearing that 3 of the really good teachers are leaving. The Maths teachers has had a nervous breakdown. Dd is fed up with the constant disruption of lesson because some of the pupils have no respect whatsoever. There's no discipline, its very rare the teacher is able to teach for 30mins without something kicking off. So then end up always behind with their work.

I really can't see how dd is going to feel nurtured or thrive in the this school environment. Shes unhappy but is putting on a brave face. She's very bright has a lot of potential, given the right support, she can go on to do well but not at this school. We feel that if we don't go private by this coming Sept start of GCSE year she will have to stay and we might live to regret the outcome. We can see that the teachers are over stretched, they are having to teach to the middle, dd will never realise her potential whilst this persist, her choice of universities will be limited the more I think and write, all I can see is gloom and a upward struggle cookiedough I don't want my dd to have to go through with what you have had to. I can see exactly what you mean unless you see and experience it yourself others won't quite understand what it is truly like, when a comp is failing, it is like a living nightmare.

My local comp which is classified as a good state school, within top 5 of state schools in my county, and the only one available for miles around achieved 66% 5 A to Cs including maths and English. And I live in one of the most expensive counties in the country for house prices and low employment rates. That's supposed to be a good school is it? So what about the rest of the 34% who didn't get A to C grade in Maths and English? These exams are really not that hard. Especially if you compare internationally.

To top it off, I have a good friend who has a SEN child and recently got into issues at the school for throwing chairs during a lesson at this very school. No this is not a one off. This child has SEN. This is a good friend of mine. But the other children suffer from a disrupted lesson(s) repeatedly.

I think a lot goes into behaviour and crowd control than teachers are willing to let on IMO.