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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

St Paul's Girls' School spgs

217 replies

Oceanicflight815 · 29/01/2015 09:43

I'm getting really tired of reading the negative comments about SPGS on here. I have a dd there and we think the school is fantastic. When we were faced with making choices after the 11+, I was so worried about all the hearsay that I seriously considered not accepting the offer. How was my normal, sporty dd going to cope with robotic, hot-housed, ultra-competitive, over-tutored, super-indulged, bitchy girls who wear obscenely short shorts? I'm so happy now that we gave it a chance.

"Well I never wanted my dd to go there", is a comment that offer holders will hear many times from people whose dd has missed the cut, even though you know that prior to the 11+, they would have sold their soul for a place. Naive people like me eventually work out that the negative comments are just the bitter taste of sour grapes.

My dd went to a school that prepared the children for the 11+ but there was no tutoring except for some who were struggling. As a poster has recently written, the school watches your child from the first day they walk in the door. They have test scores stretching for years. They know exactly what is going on and there is no way the Head will jeapordise their relationship with any of the secondary schools by recommending a child they feel is not right for that school. If it helps you to believe that my child spent all her young years being tutored, fine, but you are wrong with her and also for the huge majority of SPGS girls. They are genuinely clever girls. I understand the need to tutor if you are not coming from a private school. However, if you are at a prep school and are tutoring in the hope getting a place, you are making a serious mistake. Your dd will be happier at a different school. There are girls who make it through thanks to a tutor and they do struggle. Equally, you can dismiss the idea that prep schools over prepare the kids. If that was the case, they'd all be at spgs but they are not.

We live in West London and so we know classmates and friends' children at virtually every school here. There is absolutely no difference in the amount of homework my dd brings home compared to any of them. Content yes, amount no. Hot-housing clearly not. You need to let go of that myth too. There is plenty of time for clubs, after school activities, meeting friends, or just lying around watching television.

I find it insulting that my lovely dd is branded as robotic. She is a wonderful girl and I can't see anything in her personality that you would describe as robotic. I know all the girls in her tutor group and they are all really lovely girls that you be very proud to call your own. There was a bitchy super competive girl at her prep and that girl was not offered a place at spgs even though academically she would have been fine. I suspect that these sort of girls are being weeded out at interview. The girls at spgs seem to be confident in their own abilities. They are content within themselves. They know that they all got into the school for a reason and there is no need to prove their superiority to anyone. They are just friends.

Pushy parents, sure. No doubt I'm one. Unfortunately, you have to be in a West London. I do want what is best for my children. I want them to reach their potential. And I know the parents at my prep were the same as me and their children went to a whole range of schools so you've got the same parents at every school.

As for short shorts, that's just an additional ridiculous argument against the school. yes, there are a few. I see the girls are nearby schools rolling their skirts up. They are all teenagers. A poster suggested you stand outside the school gates and see the skimpy outfits worn by spgs girl. instead, you will see jeans, hoodies, and leggings. Half of them are in their sports kit. And they do have a really nice (but expensive) sports kit.

Yes of course there will be issues but they are the same issues as all schools around here face. If you are stressed and over anxious, it would not have mattered if you went to spgs, g&l, Lu, leh, fh, nh, clsh, nlc etc. All these schools and many more are great schools who are aiming at good results. Sex, drugs, fingers crossed yet to go there, but any story told to you third hand about spgs will apply to any school. I've got a ds elsewhere and all I can say about pastoral care is that it is far superior at spgs, as is their communication with parents and opportunities for parental involvement.

So good luck to you with your upcoming offers. Accept spgs if you feel it is right for your dd. Accept leh if that is, especially if you live near it. Keep the commute in mind, it is really important. They are all great schools around here. Ignore all the sour grapes, not just about spgs but about whichever school you choose. And if you were desperate for an offer from school but miss out, be happy for those that got in. It's ok to be disappointed. Feel sad and then make the best of what is offered. Congratulate your child, they did a great job in a very tough and stressful situation. I wish them nothing but the very best.

OP posts:
Bearleigh · 05/02/2015 04:13

Sort of off topic but DS takes part in Model United Nations and goes to a lot of their conferences. He was saying the other day that very few girls take part. I am slightly surprised that SPGS for example doesn't encourage its pupils to take part and get them used to debating against males. It would be interesting to hear views on why this is.

Bonsoir · 05/02/2015 06:40

Bearleigh - very interesting anecdote about MUN!

Eastpoint · 05/02/2015 07:04

They competed at Manchester last Saturday and are at SOAS this Saturday in the Debate Mate London Cup. In December in a competition at Warwick one girl got the prize for best speaker, third & fifth place were also taken by girls at SPGS, out of 160 entrants. There was another competition at Birmingham in which two pupils retained the title they had won the previous year. Another team in the final was from SPGS. In that competition speakers from SPGS took the top four places. SPGS beat SPS in the ESU Mace and are through to the next round. There's also a national French Debating competition taking place at SPGS this weekend. There's a junior debating league which the pupils in years 7 & 8 take part in, I know Colet is part of that group but I don't know which other schools take part. There is also a joint feminist society with the boys' school & a classics society after school. The two schools teamed up for a physics competition and act together, as well as having a combined choir & orchestra so there are opportunities for the two sexes to interact.

Bearleigh · 05/02/2015 13:52

I see SPGS do take part in MUN then - I am very glad to hear it - I googled late at night and didn't see any mention of it on the school website.

But in general it seems very few girls take part in MUN, which is a shame.

Eastpoint · 05/02/2015 14:33

It comes under 'Beyond the Curriculum - Model UN' - not much there though on any of the clubs/societies. There's much more in the monthly school news letters which let you know about things like Hans Woyda & Extreme Physics competitions.

OlderMum123 · 06/02/2015 14:38

Late in the game on this thread but appreciate Oceanic's positive post (and others) re: SPGS. The bashing on this website is ridiculous. Then to have people drone on and on that she was "too" defensive. God god ladies - get a life.
My DD is in her latter years there and has loved every minute of it. She has found it extremely nurturing and is being prepared for a fulfilling uni experience. We are fortunate that she got in, loves it, is thriving and we're able to afford it. Do I lord it over others? No. Who cares. Does she? No. Who cares.

Anyone who does not have firsthand experience at any school - as in lived it or are living it - should not be trashing it based solely on their (or their child's) usually off-base perceptions. Sure people come to this website for some advice, but isn't it best to get it from those who truly know vs. those who sit at their computers and type snarky hate-filled missives about things that they "hear" about? Isn't it just those that we try and avoid at the school gates?

So, you haters can hate - I'm not going to bother reading. You will just waste more of your time.

theintrepidfox · 06/02/2015 15:16

Thanks OlderMum (though probably not as old as me), well said and very grateful for your views. Now I'll be really gutted if DD doesn't get an offer!

Missw0rry · 06/02/2015 21:57

I spoke to a frnd , whose frnd's daughter moved in from a well respected independant school at 11+. Her opinion as compared to the other independant school was that there was too much competition and too much hiding , unlike the other school and that the peers and parents were not as helpful as previous one.
This info has again shaken me and am back to square one , not that i am spolit for choice ( results only out next week :-), and dont even know if she is going to get a place or not ( no harm in fantasizing though !!).
Also have heard that at colet court , they display marks of each child for every other children to see, thereby increasing competition . Is the same principal followed at spgs.
Any opinion would be very helpful.

sanam2010 · 06/02/2015 22:26

Bearleigh, the debating club at SPGS actually debates the St Paul's boys' school debating club, so they certainly practice debating against males. I know because I used to work with a SPGS mum who had to leave work early to attend one of those events.

Eastpoint · 07/02/2015 00:01

Often no marks are given for work at all - just positive comments about good parts & suggestions for how to improve work.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 07/02/2015 00:30

Miss for the first two years there are no marks given on any piece of work as a point of principle.

Missw0rry · 07/02/2015 07:17

Thanks for letting me know . Do they do it after they start giving marks from yr. 9.

Eastpoint · 07/02/2015 07:38

The school concentrates on each pupil doing as well as they can rather than coming top. Dd1 is not competitive with her friends and they didn't discuss GCSES grades, just congratulated each other. One of the other mothers told me her daughter's results in October, the girls still hadn't talked about them. No stickers on results envelopes meaning you had to be photographed if you reached a certain level (happens at some schools).

Eastpoint · 07/02/2015 07:41

Oh & although there is a junior prize giving it includes prizes for contribution to school life, art, drama, sport & music rather than just being highest academic marks.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 07/02/2015 08:56

My DD says she never knows what marks others get, either in pieces of work or tests unless they tell her. Some of her friends do, some don't. And they have less setting than other schools - only in Maths as far as I can tell. She and her friends just aren't competitive with each other - more encouraging. Not to say that she doesn't know that one of her friends is amazing at everything as well as being the most delightful girl!!! But her friend never shares her marks.

theintrepidfox · 07/02/2015 10:15

That actually sounds a lot more relaxed than DD's current state primary, where everybody in her year knows exactly how many points everybody else got in assessments and pupils are constantly given prizes for academic achievement. As a result (or maybe just by nature) DD is very competitive and easily disheartened if not at the top. Luckily every child in her class is good at something and DD now accepts that she'll never be best at eg creative writing or drawing (incidentally the only 2 subjects I was really good at in school Smile. She's also learnt (a little too late) that bragging doesn't make you popular with your mates. It she gets into SPGS I think it's important to stress that SPGS is not "better" than other schools and she should never look down on others, within out outside the school, because somebody will always be better and may be looking down on her.

Missw0rry · 07/02/2015 14:03

Theintrepidfox , you for sure stole my thoughts. I really liked the statement that if she gets in , i will too reiterate the fact that spgs is not necessarily the best , as there are many many clever children , who simply cant afford spgs, and that she should thank god for the opportunties , give back to society and be grounded all the time.

Homersometimesnods · 08/02/2015 18:28

I asked my mum to let me write on here as I am in Y7( MIV) at spgs .
I want to say that we dont talk about who is rich. There are 2 girls who have billionaire fathers, some are very wealthy. We know who they are but they are not the majority and they never talk about it. What I think makes it special is that we all have very different interests and have reached high levels of achievement outside of school for example representing the county or country in sports or being a member of the national youth orchestra or choir. My thing is drama. The school encourages you to continue outside interests. It does not give grades for homework so for the first time I have real friends instead of competitors which is what my Y6 was like. The teachers like homework to be completed in 30 mins per subject so I don't feel I spend all my time studying. Because the groups are small its more important to be supportive and friendly. I feel much happier here than at my previous school.

grovel · 08/02/2015 19:10

Homer (or Homer's daughter), thanks for posting. It's always good to hear first-hand experiences. My guess is that you are mature enough to understand that choice of school (for those lucky enough to have a choice) is a nightmare for parents. We so want to get it right for our children that we can become irrational when talking about schools our children don't attend (in case we got our choice wrong). Add the anonymity of the internet to a pinch of irrationality and you get some fairly random commentary!

Glad you're happy.

theintrepidfox · 08/02/2015 19:54

Hi Homer, thanks so much for posting, it is GREAT to have a real first hand view from a student rather than a parent. Really happy to hear you like SPGS, and if my daughter gets a place I hope she'll post the same next year!

Abriata · 09/02/2015 14:38

Missworry whoever told you about grades at colet court must not have a son at the school yet another example of the type of misinformation that prompted OP to write! Grades are not posted at CC, boys are not "ranked" by academic performance, there is very little setting (mainly maths), and the atmosphere is not at all competitive -- all due, in part, to the fact that most boys will proceed on to SPS so there is no need to compete in order to earn a place in a senior school. Also, because most boys are very good at something but most are not very good at everything, they respect each others' accomplishments rather than seek to outdo each other. I suspect the latter point applies to SPGS as well.

ArcheryAnnie · 09/02/2015 14:44

So - you are really happy and secure in your choices, right? And so happy and secure that you are posting an epic rant about how your DD and her classmates, who are going to to one of the most exclusive and independent schools in the country, are maligned by strangers? All of whom are only maligning the school 'cos they are well jealous, right?

Right.

Missw0rry · 09/02/2015 15:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Abriata · 09/02/2015 18:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ScottishDiblet · 09/02/2015 21:02

This is a really interesting thread. I went to Bute House years and years ago and then didn't get in to SPGS or G&L Blush so went to Putney High. This is nearly 25 years ago now. At that time I ended up thinking I had dodged a bullet by not going to SPG because there were loads of druggie girls there and a massive problem with eating disorders. But looking back Putney was the same and I was just lucky to have been happy there. The thing that I think is probably different now is that when I was at Putney we were all very average middle class families and no-one was mega rich. Or at least not obviously so. But I get the impression now that you have to be very well-off to be able to afford to go there, and to other London day schools. But this thread seems to imply otherwise. I would be very nervous about sending my daughter to Putney, even though I was so happy there, because I don't want her to mix in a really rarified world where holidays are taken on mega-yachts. Perhaps I've been a bit too quick to judge?