St Paul's Girls' School spgs

[Oceanicflight815]

I'm getting really tired of reading the negative comments about SPGS on here. I have a dd there and we think the school is fantastic. When we were faced with making choices after the 11+, I was so worried about all the hearsay that I seriously considered not accepting the offer. How was my normal, sporty dd going to cope with robotic, hot-housed, ultra-competitive, over-tutored, super-indulged, bitchy girls who wear obscenely short shorts? I'm so happy now that we gave it a chance.

"Well I never wanted my dd to go there", is a comment that offer holders will hear many times from people whose dd has missed the cut, even though you know that prior to the 11+, they would have sold their soul for a place. Naive people like me eventually work out that the negative comments are just the bitter taste of sour grapes.

My dd went to a school that prepared the children for the 11+ but there was no tutoring except for some who were struggling. As a poster has recently written, the school watches your child from the first day they walk in the door. They have test scores stretching for years. They know exactly what is going on and there is no way the Head will jeapordise their relationship with any of the secondary schools by recommending a child they feel is not right for that school. If it helps you to believe that my child spent all her young years being tutored, fine, but you are wrong with her and also for the huge majority of SPGS girls. They are genuinely clever girls. I understand the need to tutor if you are not coming from a private school. However, if you are at a prep school and are tutoring in the hope getting a place, you are making a serious mistake. Your dd will be happier at a different school. There are girls who make it through thanks to a tutor and they do struggle. Equally, you can dismiss the idea that prep schools over prepare the kids. If that was the case, they'd all be at spgs but they are not.

We live in West London and so we know classmates and friends' children at virtually every school here. There is absolutely no difference in the amount of homework my dd brings home compared to any of them. Content yes, amount no. Hot-housing clearly not. You need to let go of that myth too. There is plenty of time for clubs, after school activities, meeting friends, or just lying around watching television.

I find it insulting that my lovely dd is branded as robotic. She is a wonderful girl and I can't see anything in her personality that you would describe as robotic. I know all the girls in her tutor group and they are all really lovely girls that you be very proud to call your own. There was a bitchy super competive girl at her prep and that girl was not offered a place at spgs even though academically she would have been fine. I suspect that these sort of girls are being weeded out at interview. The girls at spgs seem to be confident in their own abilities. They are content within themselves. They know that they all got into the school for a reason and there is no need to prove their superiority to anyone. They are just friends.

Pushy parents, sure. No doubt I'm one. Unfortunately, you have to be in a West London. I do want what is best for my children. I want them to reach their potential. And I know the parents at my prep were the same as me and their children went to a whole range of schools so you've got the same parents at every school.

As for short shorts, that's just an additional ridiculous argument against the school. yes, there are a few. I see the girls are nearby schools rolling their skirts up. They are all teenagers. A poster suggested you stand outside the school gates and see the skimpy outfits worn by spgs girl. instead, you will see jeans, hoodies, and leggings. Half of them are in their sports kit. And they do have a really nice (but expensive) sports kit.

Yes of course there will be issues but they are the same issues as all schools around here face. If you are stressed and over anxious, it would not have mattered if you went to spgs, g&l, Lu, leh, fh, nh, clsh, nlc etc. All these schools and many more are great schools who are aiming at good results. Sex, drugs, fingers crossed yet to go there, but any story told to you third hand about spgs will apply to any school. I've got a ds elsewhere and all I can say about pastoral care is that it is far superior at spgs, as is their communication with parents and opportunities for parental involvement.

So good luck to you with your upcoming offers. Accept spgs if you feel it is right for your dd. Accept leh if that is, especially if you live near it. Keep the commute in mind, it is really important. They are all great schools around here. Ignore all the sour grapes, not just about spgs but about whichever school you choose. And if you were desperate for an offer from school but miss out, be happy for those that got in. It's ok to be disappointed. Feel sad and then make the best of what is offered. Congratulate your child, they did a great job in a very tough and stressful situation. I wish them nothing but the very best.

We have had 2 DDs at SPGS the younger of whom is in her last year. I fully endorse the comments of the first poster. It is a fantastic school - not only academically but the pastoral care and extra-curriculars are great. Our girls - who have quite different personalities and interests -have both been very happy there. If you are considering choosing it but are deterred by some of the comments here ignore them - they are basically urban myths.

That's not really true. I may not be a current parent, but I am married to an Old Pauline, the sister of another, and aunt to two Paulinas (one left, one current). I see a LOT of Paulinas and I'm not thrilled to say there is a great deal of entitled behaviour from all generations including DH who I adore. I do not notice it in the same way in DB (Westminster) or nephews (one Eton, one Westminster). As I've said before, clearly it's not ALL the girls, but there is a substantial minority. It's worth knowing this before you sign up your DDs. It may bother you, it may not, but at least forewarned is forearmed.

I wish more people shared experiences of their children's schools instead of commenting on schools they don't have children at.
yy!!
And FWIW we have DC at SPS who mix with DC of many schools at parties and other events, state and indie - they really don't even register what school anyone is at - ridiculous notion that they would remotely care.

Really? Wise up. Everyone knows where everyone goes. They may not "care" , but they know.

Not sure what the point is here? As you say, you are not a current parent. I am. The schools the DCs friends go to are an irrelevance to them.

My first point is that all London privately educated teens know exactly where the people they meet at parties go to school, it is naive to claim otherwise, which is what you seemed to be suggesting. ("they really don't even register what school anyone is at - ridiculous notion that they would remotely care") .Whether it is relevant to them surely depends on the individual. My wider point is that I have recently seen extremely entitled behaviour from pupils at SPS and SPGS which I don't see at my DC's school which is equally demanding to get into, but which has a rather different ethos. You claim my opinion is not valid because I'm not a parent at the school, but surely the fact that I regularly come into contact with former and current Paulinas and Paulines in my immediate family gives me the right to comment.

Wow. So anyone who doesn't like the school is a bitter wannabe?

I don't think you've done the school any favours with your rant.

There are lots of bright kids at other schools...and [clutches pearls] I even hear some people send their bright DC's to state schools.

The school is obviously an excellent one and is much liked by its pupils. OP and HollyGolightly3 are right to set the record straight on that.

However, the questions I raised above about the school's current leadership and about whether it has been chasing high scores in public exams to the detriment of its intellectual culture, are worth considering as well, even if they don't have an immediate impact on pupils.

I would add that, as also noted on another thread and reported in the Sunday Times, SPGS's fees have risen by 37.6% in the last 5 years, the biggest fees increase in the UK. Against the backdrop of stagnating salaries and tiny inflation elsewhere, this is a quite astonishing number. It raises questions not only about the management of the school but also about the kind of people who are going to be able to afford these fees, and to bear such inflation busting hikes, an increasingly exclusive segment of the super rich with access to personal and family wealth, I fear.

I just asked dd2 why she didn't want to go on a school trip. She said because she has already been on one this year & her friends have to choose one a year & she wants to fit in.

Which year had to retake their GCSEs Poisonwood? You often quote this & I'd love to know when it was.

Schools are unlikely to gain a reputation for arrogance in their pupils without some element of truth. If that were the downside of otherwise the best fit school for my DC I would just take even more special care as a parent to counteract any tendencies that way.

I totally agree.

OP - you sound a bit defensive and insecure re your choice of school, TBH

The "people only post mean things about St Pauls Girls because they're jealous and they're daughters aren't smart enough to have got in" argument seems seriously flawed to me. Whilst you can't judge a school by a few of its students, there seem to more than a few posters here who think that this school which produces top academic results, could teach a little humility too.

oops sorry for the typo "Their daughters" - obvs

And arrogant in the extreme

Wow, very defensive post indeed. Certainly a sense of superiority regarding "content" of homework. Why would you bother starting a thread about a school you are clearly very happy with. The school is v v oversubscribed and, from what I understand, has a very high acceptance rate so really needs no defending and selling to anyone.
Also, what a strange thing to suggest that people's views are formed from 'sour grapes'!? Why would you automatically assume that someone's negativity about the school is simply because their child didn't get through the entrance test - it may be hard for you to comprehend, but it SPGS really isn't everyone's first choice - far from it. Fwiw, I was very underwhelmed when I visited the school - the girls that showed us around were actually very uninspiring and quite honestly, I wouldn't have been "very proud to have called them my own" as you suggest in your post (maybe they were an anomaly?).
We decided against applying for various reasons, but my thoughts about the school certainly do not stem from a secret desire for my DD to be there.

Eastpoint The year of the English results debacle, although most of the reporting was of the C/D boundaries, a few of the indies (it was not consistent across exam boards) at the top of the league tables were also affected at the A*/A/B boundary, though not all went to the press . It affected English Lit as well as English Language and IGCSEs. Although it was a shock on the day within hours most schools seemed to have recognised it was political, that universities would be able to see that as well, sixth forms were taking people whose grades had dropped below those required / predicted, and schools counselling pupils to move on and show what they could do at AS, except apparently SPGS. Even Wycombe didn't make them retake.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9497631/GCSE-results-university-places-at-risk-from-grades-drop.html

Holly Wow. I don't think anyone on here has made comments that the school is homogenously one no parent should consider. Clearly it is an amazing school for the right sort of girl, just saying that you need to be sure it is the right school for your DD because there are issues.

Nobody is doubting that the experience of either your or OPs daughters is a good one. But to disregard the experiences of other posters, and most are quoting direct experiences, as either sour grapes or urban myths is astoundingly dismissive, and reeks of illusions of superiority, not to mention selective blindness. I do hope that it in no way reflects the level of intellectual rigour your daughters should be being taught is required for the evaluation of subjective evidence. I fully understand dashing off a mumsnet post is not History A level but other people's experiences should never be dismissed. I am not going to quote the individual family stories because that might out families and girls which would be unfair but if you think there are no problems with competitive or lax parenting / drugs / eating disorders / binge drinking / exclusive behaviour / reckless sexual behaviour / girls feeling pressured at SPGS, as indeed has in part been acknowledged by the High Mistress (and as there is to varying degrees at other schools) you are very naive and are not getting the full story from your daughters.....

The difference with SPGS is that like Rodean, Eton, Westminster and a handful of others is gets press attention. The heads get quotes in the news papers over the years. And yes, that makes a lot of people wear "judging pants" when it shouldn't. The other "local contenders" are not examined, held up to the light and shredded in the same way. Girls at SPGS have that albatross that others won't. There is something to "defend" which G&L or LU alumni might not ever need to.

That said, there are bigger issues in life to worry about than those of the very privileged of west London!

Free speech and all - in both directions.

MN164 there are quite a few schools or indeed heads that have a high profile in the media. However that media association does n't in itself create a negative reputation or 'albatross' (except the obvious one of privilege) for the pupils including that of the one of arrogance discussed here. Indeed for some schools like KCS or Westminster or indeed Harrow after their TV series the coverage is generally quite positive.

Summerends

That's a good point. Publicity is not always negative.

I think that privilege and the injustice of it is one angle, but I also think there is envy and competition to add fuel to the fire. When all of that is there and the head dares to speak out about how parents should be parenting their daughters .....

I think that the group of schools that have that media profile is small and the ones that have taken the opportunity to create sympathy somehow even smaller. SPGS isn't one of those.

Oh and tables like this one aren't going to help turn off the spotlight ....

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-31023681

Meanwhile, back on planet earth.......

MN164

Note though that LU, COLGS, G&L and LEH come 13th, 16th, 23rd and 28th respectively - in the whole country.

(And I assume the fact that half the G&L cohort take IB may have had an impact.)

All rather a small world problem, and suggests that parents who choose one of the obvious alternatives, two within a short walk of SPGS, because they feel it would suit their child better, are probably not suffering from sour grapes. Nor that the content of the homework received elsewhere is significantly less challenging than that set at SPGS. (FWIW SPGS seemed to do an iGCSE MFL syllabus that was signficantly less challenging than the one used by other schools.)

For me the phrase that rankles most in the OP is "They know that they all got into the school for a reason and there is no need to prove their superiority to anyone." There is this sense in West London that at least a minority of Pauline and Paulina parents see sucess at 11+ as evidence of some form of superior intellect clearly inherited from the parents. It is a test taken at aged 10, and based on selection criteria chosen by the school. Yes SPGS will pick clever kids but will filter out late developers, DC with an uneven profile who will come into their own once they can pick their subjects at A level, and those with talents and abilities that are not tested. I can't see how it can be healthy for students feel that either they are the "best" school in the country, or that this implies they are are better and brighter than their peers elsewhere.

I understand that unusually few left SPGS for Westminster this year. DDs friends told her that several withdrew their applications late, when realising that Westminster had fallen behind SPGS in the league tables. If so I think it is sad. League tables are one thing, education is another.

All high-profile schools come in for regular kickings on MN and elsewhere. There's one very sought-after comp that's always being knocked on here, most of the grammars, Eton etc (as already mentioned). It comes with the territory. No school is perfect, most schools will suit a certain type of pupil very well. OP is lucky that her dd is a great fit, good luck to her and her dd.

We considered SPGS for dd but discounted it for several reasons, but not because of any negative comments on here ...

1. The journey while not far as the crow flies is awkward via public transport
2. Most of her friends would be the other side of the Thames so socialising later on would be trickier
3. She's very bright but very hard on herself so we thought she'd do better being at the top of a slightly less selective school
4. Partly because of 3 we were more keen on co-ed
5. The lack of uniform - I know the vast majority of the girls end up wearing their own 'uniform' there would be girls there with all the latest labels
6. The eye-watering fees - I really can't see that SPGS offers so much more than the other London day schools to justify being so much more expensive

One of dd's best friends is there and is very happy but it wasn't for us with not a sour grape in sight ...