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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

mixed ability for English - just why?

166 replies

BrendaBlackhead · 08/10/2014 09:30

Dd has just started year 7. English is mixed ability.

She was set for English at primary school and also a small group had extra lessons with the Head.

She now says English is really disappointing and it's her worst lesson by far. The teacher concentrates on the least able pupils and asks the class to do things such as describing the person next to them, or what's in their pencil case. No hint of grammar or studying any books or plays.

I have had this with ds and came up against a brick wall when I spoke to the school. The school's line is that having the most able pupils in the class brings on the weaker ones, and the exam results are not affected. But it isn't all about the grade at the end of year 11!

Today it was English first thing and dd was moaning about how dreadful it was going to be.

How can it be that it's deemed "not on" to give pupils appropriate teaching?

OP posts:

RaisinBoys · 21/10/2014 12:23

this and *is

PastSellByDate · 21/10/2014 13:44

Raisin:

first off - Brenda posted: She now says English is really disappointing and it's her worst lesson by far. - she went on to say more in subsequent posts about her DD just sitting there bored/ dreading having the class that day/ etc.... So I don't think it's unfair of me to interpret this as a fairly miserable experience for Brenda's poor DC.

I think this task is appropriate. That's my opinion - but it is right there on BBC Bitesize KS3 materials/ resources (www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/standard/english/lit_form/descriptive/revision/3/)- Hertfordshire grid for learning KS3 English descriptive writing tasks are virtually identical.

I'm not sure how you differentiate a task like this - I'd love to know what you'd suggest Raisin. Personally I think the differentiation is in the execution of the task - any ability can access this assignment - but the resulting paragraph will clearly vary in terms of the quality of the student's writing skills.

RaisinBoys · 21/10/2014 14:11

Brick Wall, talking to, I quit, repetition.

Include the above into a grammatically correct sentence. L6 extension; write it 5 different ways and perhaps use a bit of Chaucer's finest. How's that for an assignment past?

De-railing the thread now so I bid it farewell!

PastSellByDate · 22/10/2014 11:35

Raisin:

Maybe it's me - but with the exception of referencing Chaucer I'm sincerely struggling to see how you're suggestion of what NC L6 differentiated material is any different from what I was suggesting in earlier posts to Brenda.

Having previously told me that doing something like this with an assignment would either

piss off the teacher or result in detention

I'm slightly perplexed by your 'solution'?

-----

If I've opined - and I admit being verbose - it's because two things angered me:

That Brenda & others felt the assignment wasn't appropriately difficult for NC L6 ability pupil
That many have posted here assuming that the problem was bad teaching.

I don't enjoy the role of Devil's advocate - but I do see in my day to day work too many students who were high flyers in secondary really struggle at University because of very inflexible approaches to tasks and almost need hand holding through assignments (essays/ lab books/ posters/ oral presentations). So many just don't get that a reading list is a 'starting point' not 'all you have to do'. So many just don't get that there is no right or wrong answer. So many just don't get that there is a structure to these things of course, but you have complete autonomy in designing your essay/ talk/ power point presentation/ etc....

And my passionate arguments that these assignments Brenda described could be really fun & challenging for a 'highly able Y7' - was about mindset - both the implicit concept in Brenda's posts that the teacher was somehow at fault for not explicitly explaining in great detail what was expected (which I have some issues with - and I think is restrictive to creativity) and more importantly - that a student who has every right to ask as many questions as necessary if confused/ perplexed - feels it would be creepy to seek help/ clarifications/ advice in class from a teacher or to discuss their work/ approach with another classmate.

More than anything else I feel sorry for the teacher - who many here have vilified - joining Brenda in assuming their teaching/ assignments are poor quality (a more pejorative word was used on several occasions). I get that there are horrible teachers out there - and this may well be one of those instances - but I don't know for sure.

PSBD

duhgldiuhfdsli · 22/10/2014 12:42

feels it would be creepy to seek help/ clarifications/ advice in class from a teacher or to discuss their work/ approach with another classmate.

You've not spent a lot of time in comprehensive school classrooms, have you? Indeed, I'll guess you've spent no time in comprehensive school classrooms whatsoever.

Yes, attempting to extend tasks will piss off the teacher. Yes, it will deeply piss off your classmates. No, it's no way to make friends. That you from the perspective of (I'm guessing) being a lecturer at Birmingham think these things aren't true just makes me hope you're nothing to do with Free School project.

Notinaminutenow · 22/10/2014 12:57

*"I'm slightly perplexed by your 'solution'?"

Past I was offering no solution to the OP's daughter - I would not be so bold as to, without the full facts at my disposal.

That assignment was meant for you! It was sarcasm. Perhaps it was too subtle?!

Next time I will employ the use of very large hammer to make my point!

Notinaminutenow · 22/10/2014 12:59

*"I'm slightly perplexed by your 'solution'?"

Past I was offering no solution to the OP's daughter - I would not be so bold as to, without the full facts at my disposal.

That assignment was meant for you! It was sarcasm. Perhaps it was too subtle?!

Next time I will employ the use of very large hammer to make my point!

Notinaminutenow · 22/10/2014 13:13

From Raisin aka notinaminute depending on which log in I can remember at which time

PastSellByDate · 22/10/2014 13:24

duh:

You're assuming quite a bit.

First, both DH and I are products of comprehensive state funded education system (England and USA) - ordinary primaries and secondary comprehensives with non-selective admission by catchment. Maybe we were lucky but we were both educated in an environment where you could have a bit of fun whilst learning and questions in class were positively encouraged, indeed rewarded. We have very fond memories of our 'school days'.

I have absolutely nothing to do with University of Birmingham free school - and for us it wasn't even an option - DD1 is currently in Year 7 - the school hasn't even opened yet. I guess it will next school year - but so far its just a building site. I'm not even clear what the catchments out of Selly Oak will be and if we'd even be in one. DD2 is Y5 - so I've got a while before I consider her secondary options, but she's very keen to just join her sister at her senior school.

I think you are assuming a lot. Including that a University lecturer couldn't possibly be educated at ordinary state maintained primaries/ comprehensives.

I don't think a secondary English teacher will ALWAYS give detention if a student bends an assignment.... but I can see that's been your experience and I can understand your concerns for Brenda's DC in light of such a negative experience.

All I can say is that I don't know what the English teacher is like - but I don't think these assignments are too easy and I think Brenda & her DC need clarification.

I think it is a real shame duh that if you have children you're going to discourage them from ever asking a question in class. It's a powerful tool in learning - and it's a shame not to use it.

PastSellByDate · 22/10/2014 13:40

Raisin/ Not:

L6 extension; write it 5 different ways - I believe that is your example of what you consider a L6 appropriate extension (aimed at me or not/ glib or not).

Notinaminutenow · 22/10/2014 13:46

What are you talking about?

Thankfully I am off to work.

PastSellByDate · 22/10/2014 14:22

Really Not/ Raisin?

Are you now going to say that giving an example of a L6 extension - which is to write a paragraph using the five words you chose (aimed at me of course) in 5 different ways wasn't your version of an appropriately differentiated task for that ability....

You've posted plenty here on MN without full facts at your disposal - why are you changing the habits of a lifetime now?

PastSellByDate · 27/11/2014 12:32

Hi Brenda:

Don't want to dig up old arguments - but was wondering if things are going better for your DD now?

I hope so.

PSBD

Original poster

BrendaBlackhead · 27/11/2014 13:38

Thank you for asking.

They were doing some poetry, which dd enjoyed, but the last two lessons have been spent performing Auden's The Night Mail, the class reading one line each.

Dd is the sort of child to keep her head down, but says the teacher always comes to her last, and says, let's ask BrendaJunior what this bit means. I think dd is a bit wary of the teacher.

It's parents' evening next week. We shall see what we shall see...

OP posts:

PastSellByDate · 27/11/2014 14:23

Oh dear - I had hoped that things would settle down.

I hope that the parent/ teacher meeting helps.

PSBD

LaQueenIsKickingThroughLeaves · 27/11/2014 17:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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