mixed ability for English - just why?

[BrendaBlackhead]

Dd has just started year 7. English is mixed ability.

She was set for English at primary school and also a small group had extra lessons with the Head.

She now says English is really disappointing and it's her worst lesson by far. The teacher concentrates on the least able pupils and asks the class to do things such as describing the person next to them, or what's in their pencil case. No hint of grammar or studying any books or plays.

I have had this with ds and came up against a brick wall when I spoke to the school. The school's line is that having the most able pupils in the class brings on the weaker ones, and the exam results are not affected. But it isn't all about the grade at the end of year 11!

Today it was English first thing and dd was moaning about how dreadful it was going to be.

How can it be that it's deemed "not on" to give pupils appropriate teaching?

Setting results in sink sets. That's why its not done early on. It damages self esteem and can be a trigger for bullying. Any teacher worth their salt can teach mixed ability effectively. In y7 they are given the opportunity to show their true potential and exactly where they are as they all drop levels after the holidays. If she is bored, then this can be appropriately expressed to the teacher and extra/more challenging work can be given. Let's face it tho. We all have to do things we don't like. She needs to work hard and show her ability. They are probably just easing them in gently and helping them to make friends by doing speaking/listening. That's an important part of school too. That said... If things don't improve after xmas then it needs to be addressed. I can't see many schools not being paranoid about english now the GCSEs have changed.

I saw our local state schools where this way of teaching was rife. I made a run for it to the private sector where setting and streaming is a given. My DS who was probably a middle to lower pupil at one point has been stretched and moved from set to set over the years resulting in fab GCSE results and hopefully the same for A Level and pre U.

The school often had 6 different streams/set and pupils moved from trm to term depending on their needs.

Hairtoday

I definitely take your point - that a good teacher or a task you're really interested in can make a huge difference - for the better....

but

I think it's very hard from where I'm sitting to judge whether the tasks were 'appropriate' or not - what I can say is that they're virtually identical to what's playing out at schools here in Birmingham - my gut feeling is these are typical Y7 tasks that can get a student thinking and writing juices flowing - just Brenda's DC didn't quite see that or maybe didn't understand she could do anything she liked with that topic.

Now I take the point - that may not be the case - I genuinely have no idea - so as several have suggested Brenda needs to talk to her DC's English Teacher - I'm just saying that perhaps this isn't 'the teacher's fault' - or as you termed it 'not on' giving inappropriately differentiated teaching. Perhaps this was an open ended task and Brenda's daughter could have merrily spent a half hour writing about how her pencil case is a portal to another world, but Brenda's DC missed that point entirely.

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Brenda - I sincerely hope things improve for the better. At core what you have here is a communication problem. The teacher may feel she's assigned a totally open assignment that students at high ability can really play with - but your daughter is taking the task very literally and is a bit too intimidated to check what more she could do or if she can take a certain approach with the tasks.

I think your DC has the technical ability to ace Y7 English but needs to develop that creativity - these are in essence Y7 creative writing tasks working on descriptive language. They aren't too easy for your daughter. That would be the equivalent of saying write an essay about Henry VIII is too easy for someone good at History - there are essays and there are essays. The point is - as a student - you have to make sure your effort stands out.

Well, then - if this is a standard Yr7 exercise then surely a teacher should communicate that a pupil is at liberty to extend the task. Your average 11-year-old is not going to go out on a limb and do something that the teacher has not explicitly asked for. That might be what you think the "bright" student should do, but it runs the real risk of coming across as bumptious.

Just wanted to lend my support for PastSellByDate, I think you've made some great points and have been really generous with your ideas.
We're a year ahead so in year 8 and one of the things I learnt last year was that they do LOADS of essay writing in other subjects, so kids get a chance to practice and develop across the curriculum. It's very different to primary where literacy is more isolated to literacy lessons. So your DD will get lots of opportunity to enhance her literacy skills, including literary techniques, outside of her 3 literacy lessons a week. I know it's frustrating if one subject isn't living upto expectations, and the Literacy curriculum appears to be fairly stifling. But the other thing is that secondary provides such a broad range of new subjects to really get your teeth into and explore that on the whole it just can't be boring. I find some bits of my job/life dull, but hey that's life and I've learnt to make the most of it. It's not a bad life lesson.

Whilst you have a valid point pass it only holds water if the prior teaching before the writing clearly directs the pupils to success criteria. My impression from the OP is that this is what is missing from the lesson, her child, as do most, needs guidance on the expectations of the task. A good, differentiated lesson guides pupils of all abilities towards making progress.

Personally I'd rather do any number of creative writing exercises than 'learn' grammar!

As others have said, I don't think the problem is that they are in a mixed ability group; rather, that your DD has not understood that she has been given a large amount of freedom in terms of how she approaches the set task.

It took my DS a while to realise that 'write a paragraph' really meant 'I expect everyone to write at least a paragraph', and that no one would be cross with him if he wrote more.

FWIW I think English is pretty suitable for teaching in mixed-ability groups. As with most subjects, in fact, progress in English is not linear it doesn't get increasingly difficult and there are no prizes for racing through the curriculum and finishing first. English lessons are or should be -- based on discussion and developing insights, both of which can benefit from having a diverse group.

Just one more thing. My DS's favourite subject is English (well, English and History. And Drama). He wants to be a writer and he practises writing ALL the time, to an almost annoying extent. We have had to ban writing at the dinner table. He writes in the lunch hour, when he comes home from school, late into the evenings, on car journeys even if only to the supermarket, when watching television etc. etc. At the school's open evening the English department put him on display as the 'story machine' who could write a story around whatever prompt he was given. That's not him being bumptious: he's just doing something that he loves. Maybe your DD had fantastic experiences in primary, but is not actually as much into the subject itself as she thought? Not a criticism -- merely a question.

friendly the skills being taught in English Lit/English Language have very little to do with the skills needed to be a successful writer.

And nor should they be!

Well, yes and no (and I speak as a writer and an English graduate). In Year 7 (and 8 so far) they seemed to do a lot of writing in all sorts of different styles and that is what DS loves about the subject. He does also read. What I was trying to say is that I don't agree with the people who poured scorn on the idea of students' being self-motivated and pushing themselves beyond what they're asked to do in the lesson. If they really love the subject they do that naturally.

Any teacher worth their salt can teach mixed ability effectively

No - they can make the best of it and try not to hamper the bright or confuse the weak but the best way to teach it is in sets.

past sorry but what you're describing is a poor education for a high ability student

I completely agree with this btw word. There is a lot of rather offensive nonsense on this thread.

If they really love the subject they do that naturally

I'm sorry but that is utter crap. They have been taught to fulfil a brief. They are children

It was being taught like this that made me utterly miserable at my state primary in the 70s. Until I read this thread I didn't realise it was all my fault for not showing initiative instead of sitting there bored out of my brains or, if I was lucky, being sent off to read on my own. Happily for me, my parents were able to move me to a private school where this didn't happen. Obviously not everyone has that get-out and they shouldn't need to have it. It infuriates me it's still happening today.

Guys

Given how teacher's performance is assessed in schools - by management/ by OFSTED - it is highly unlikely at an ordinary comprehensive there wouldn't have been a plenary (an introduction explaining the task and what outcomes the teacher wanted).

I think you all have to step back

Brenda has reported her DC literally took the instructions write one word to sum up the article on students selling hamburgers as if she could only select and write down one word during the entire class.

Do you seriously believe anyone with reasonable room temperature IQ (preferably higher) would insist that pupils only wrote one word and didn't play about a bit with ideas? Re-read the article for inspiration on word choice?

I get that the one word 'picture' seemed a poor answer - but Brenda's DC shouldn't be concerned about their answer but concerned about hers.

I think the simple explanation is that Brenda's DC isn't 'getting' these open ended assignments that are requiring her to show some initiative and some of that NC L6 flair & ability. I think as part of KS2 L6 papers in writing (not sure if she got a NC L6 in Writing or just reading) - there are very similar creative writing tasks: L6 2012 SAT paper

Maybe it's being too used to tightly timed tasks - and not getting that she can plan/ revise/ play with what she's writing & her use of language

Maybe it's just being 11 - and ?a bit timid.

But at core this is a communication problem - and I'd love to be a fly on the wall to hear what the English teacher has to say about all of this when Brenda has a chat with her about all of this.

Well, I have grilled dd about her teacher's words and whether she is inviting the pupils to view the task as "open-ended". Now, dd is not daft. She said the teacher did not say - however vaguely - that pupils should make of it what they could.

(And, if that is the case, why the hell doesn't the teacher just say "write more if you can" or "think up the most obscure/appropriate/interesting word you can" instead of expecting pupils to gather this by esp?)

Anyway, the homework is to connect lines from pictures to words. Dd said that one pupil asked if that was it, and the teacher explicitly asked that they only did what was on the worksheet.

My daughter is in a secondary that only sets for maths, and like your daughter her love of English took quite a knock. She is now in year 11, and the school has been preparing them for their essay controlled assessment on Richard III by such activities as "select a picture from the board to show how you are feeling about writing your controlled assessment". The teaching is almost entirely aimed at C grade students, and the class has been given examples of B grade essays full of subliterate English.

Huge amounts of time are wasted on "engaging" activities, rather than serious, focussed teaching. I have had to teach her myself about what she needs to do to get a high mark, through lots of Internet research, and my own knowledge of essay structure and academic language. I am fortunate that my daughter is prepared to accept such help from me, and that I am able to give it. Many parents here employ tutors.

Why is it so difficult to understand that some teachers make some lessons boring and others don't? Dd is bright and in Year 7 found Geography lessons very dull. Ds1 and Ds2 in a different school found the Geography lessons exciting and thrilling. Same curriculum, same essential intake in both schools (as everyone has brothers and sisters at the schools) same results. There wasn't anything wrong with the setting (all mixed ability till GSCE) - or the curriculum. Just the way the teacher taught the lesson. Tectonic plates were exciting in one lesson, dull as ditchwater in dd's lessons.

I think bad teaching is just that.

kestrel that is awful!

English CAs really are marks for the taking. An able student, well guided, ought to be able to bank up a very good score.

Btw there was no ability setting in English for the first year in either school (comp). And they never found those lessons boring. Ds1 and 2 studied Shakespeare in Year 7 (Tempest) and Ds2 even did Beowulf and Blake. Neither of my sons are v academic L 5 and L4 respectively. Ds2 had a level 3 in writing even. I could see that the tasks were difficult for ds2 but would stretch a L6 er. Yet ds2 still got plenty out of them, although we had to scribe them for him in some cases. They were never ever bored.

She is now in year 11, and the school has been preparing them for their essay controlled assessment on Richard III by such activities as "select a picture from the board to show how you are feeling about writing your controlled assessment".

Presumably, given Ofsted's new framework on levels of progress for more able children, the head has decided that his career would be more exciting if he took the school into special measures.

Brenda I sympathise with your daughter. It's boring for her and she can lose interest in the subject. Try something more challenging at home. It's really annoying when schools do that.

Brenda:

again as I and others have suggested - I think you and your DC need to have a meeting with the English teacher.

Your daughter doesn't need permission to stretch herself.

This post started off as a complaint about the tasks and has 'transmogified' into various people saying 'there's no excuse for bad teaching' or similar.

Yes - the teacher may not be communicating these tasks very well - but the simple and obvious solution - is for you to assist your daughter to reasonably sort this out. ASK THE TEACHER -

In the task 'Describe your pencil case' - could my DD have written this as fiction - maybe that the pencil case contained magic objects?

In the task 'Pick one word to describe this article' - could my DD have raised her hand and ask to use a computer to search for words with 'burger' in it? Could my DD have written out a list of word options or ideas and then indicate her choice? What was the purpose of this task? Was this about 'Headline' writing skills?

I really think there's an attitudinal issue here with you and your DC.

I'm hearing: Education happens at schools and is only from my teacher.

-The teacher must tell me precisely in fine detail what I'm expected to do.

 -It would be weird or 'creepy' to raise my hand in class and ask for help/ further information/ guidance.

Genuinely these could have been fun tasks - your daughter could have asked to use a dictionary or a thesaurus (and I suspect they are right there in class on a bookcase collecting dust). Your daughter could have asked the teacher - is this description task meant to be factual or can we be more imaginative?

Maybe it's overly PLATONIC - by which I mean a style of education Plato (the Greek philospher) introduced where learning was through dialogue and interplay of exchanging ideas and questions between students and teacher and each other - but education doesn't have to be passive.

If anything Brenda - consider what your DC could have achieved with these tasks had she been less meek and asked the teacher over to look at her work - which could have lead to the teacher praising your DC and suggesting she write a bit more about that pencil her friend gave her - but this time it's secretly a wand.

I get that your DC had a lot of attention in primary and I guess small-group lessons with the HT in English - but she's in a new situation. It is what it is. Why not try and make the most of it - rather than complain or wait for a better teacher to come along. It's never going to be like primary again.

Brenda: have a look at the assessment criteria for KS3 in Reading/ Writing here: assessment criteria KS3

In particular look at NC Level 6 ability across a range of writing:

• imaginative treatment of appropriate materials, familiarity with conventions of a variety of forms, adapting them when needed to suit purpose and audience, not always successfully, e.g. deliberate use of inappropriate register for humour, clear emphasis on narration rather than plot

-convincing, individual voice or point of view established and mostly
sustained throughout, e.g. authoritative expert view, convincing
characterisation, adopting a role

-level of formality used for purpose and audience generally appropriate and a range of stylistic devices used to achieve effect, not always successfully, e.g. controlled informality, generalisations or shifts between conversational style and more literary language

And looking ahead to what they'll be looking to see your DC's work for her to achieve NC L7 ability across a range of writing:

• imaginative and generally successful adaptation of wide range of forms

and conventions to suit variety of purposes and audiences, e.g. deliberate reference to other texts or textual conventions for effect or emphasis

-well judged, distinctive individual voice or point of view established and
sustained throughout, e.g. consistent handling of narrator’s persona in
fiction; well controlled use of original turns of phrase in formal discursive
writing

-generally successful and consistent control of appropriate level of
formality and varied range of stylistic devices to achieve intended effect,
e.g. varying the level of formality within a piece for effect; direct address to the reader or taking the reader into their confidence

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Brenda I get that your daughter needs to understand she can play with these assignments - she needs that formal permission. Talk to the teacher and clear this up so she can enjoy her work in English. I don't think it takes ESP (as you suggested) to have a creative take on a task - but I do think your DC, for whatever reason, feels really unsure she can do that and is worried it will be wrong or get her in trouble. Talk to the teacher and clear this up.

I strongly suspect the teacher isn't 'awful' and these assignments weren't 'low ability' or somehow beneath your DCs dignity. They didn't have to be boring tasks your DC whizzed through and once completed she just sat there waiting for class to end, not saying a peep.

I really think your DC is missing a lot of things in the assignment, how secondary school works, what is now expected from her. And from what you have said I get the impression your DC may be a bit timid/ shy and isn't the type to speak up - so may rather get lost in the crush of louder/ more attention seeking pupils in class.

Talk to the English teacher or if that's too awkward - talk to the form tutor or Head of Year - but sincerely these tasks could have been a lot of fun if your DC hadn't felt so constricted - I can only choose & write one word and then must sit and wait patiently for class to end - seems a really odd thing for a teacher to assign. I strongly feel there's a communication problem there - and it isn't just the teacher.

PSBD

"I really think there's an attitudinal issue here with you and your DC".

I don't think that's really fair for the first month in secondary school. Children are desperate to fit in, find their way, not stand out from the crowd, not do something wrong. Also, some teachers can make it very clear that they don't want their methods questioned in any way - you don't know whether or not this is the case. And some children are just shy.

Please do let us know how your conversation with the teacher goes Brenda, because I, and I suspect many of us, are a little tired of hearing repeatedly that this must be you and your dd's fault.

The "write one word" sounds like a technique for getting children to focus on their choice of language, so probably not typical.

However, I did try once suggesting to my daughter that she alleviate her boredom in her mixed ability classes by practising taking notes. She replied that she wasn't allowed to write anything unless specifically instructed to.