DH had decided DD should not go to grammar school - Help!

[supadoula]

Our gorgeous DD passed her 11+ without any tuition and then got into a grammar school 10 minutes away. She is not happy because she will miss some of her friends.
Without my knowledge, DH phoned the headmistress of her previous school (a failing middle school in special measures!) to ask if they would have her back. Of course, they said they would. Now, DD is convinced she is going back to her middle school...
I am going to mediation tomorrow with soon to be ex DH in order to sort this out ASAP. She is registered at the grammar school anyway but I need ammunition so that DH realises that it is his parental duty not to give into his daughter's whims and think about her long term future. Help!!

LaQ, would have to be the top 10% in a secondary modern, not a comp ie those who had only just failed the 11+ being compared with those who only just pass.
I'm not sure that every comp has disruption and bullying as the norm. I know quite a few bright kids who have got a load of A* and never had bullying issues, my goddaughter for one who is fond of listing her peers who went to a private grammar and got worse results.

I wonder what people who feel that Grammar schools are the best place for academically able children make of schools like Parmiters in Hertfordshire. LaQueenOnHerHolibobs, any thoughts?

LaQueenOnHerHolibobs - But it doesn't say what percentage of those pupils got all A or As. so what percentage of students at your DDs school get all A or As?

I've just been looking at the 2013 published A level results, for the grammar that my DD has started at this week. Just fyi: across all the listed subjects 215 out of 364 kids got A*s or As, roughly 59%. Across Eng lit, maths, further maths and sciences 130 out of 232 got those top 2 grades, roughly 56%.

I don't know how that compares really to our local comps. Their stats for high attainers range from high 60%s to low 80%s for grades A - C, I don't know the breakdown of A grades only. But the high attainers are less than a third of the cohort IIRC from recent DfE browsing.

We chose to apply to the grammar because it's walking distance from our home, my DD was also familiar from a young age with a family friend who went to it so it was part of the landscape for her as she progressed through primary school, and my DD was very keen to be in a more challenging environment (she found primary boring at times and was often frustrated with the slower pace of work). And I prefer a single sex school based on my own prejudiced experience of bullying in a mixed school (not denying that bad behaviour doesn't exist in grammar schools too!)

I think there are rights and wrongs to both sides of the argument. It's a far from ideal system but we all try to do the best that we can for our children first, followed by whatever else we can do to help other kids and improve the system IMHO.

mumtryingbest. Parmiters and Watford Boys/Girls are grammar schools, that because of political reasons admit a couple of low attainers at year 7.

That is the only reason they are not full on grammar schools.

Parmiter's is partially selective (35% iirc). The same percentage selective as Watford Grammar School for Boys and Watford Grammar School for Girls.

smokepole so you consider 75% of the intake as "a couple of low attainers at year 7"? Interesting way to view it.

It is interesting to hear you say that they are Grammar schools as they are generally not seen as such in the league tables. This article highlights the fact: www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jan/23/watford-grammar-school-girls-gcse-rankings

Polonium 25% are academic, 10% music. Queens also selects on sports aptitude and Bushey Meads on Technology aptitude.

I would be interested in knowing how schools with only 1/4 selected by academic ability are able to compete with schools with 100% academic selection.

LaQueen I think the lowest attaining 10% in a middling Kent grammar might well not beat the top 10% in a middling similarly leafy area comp.

I'm also quite interested to know what you consider to be the lowest set of grades to count as 'superb' or 'excellent' at GCSE, AS and A2?: 7A/5A at GCSE? 4A at AS? 2A/1A at A2? What grades match your superlatives at the lower end? I think there's quite a bit of misunderstanding about exactly what grades are achieved in these schools - it's quite a range.

LaQueen - as you live in a GS area, your local non-selective school is likely to be less comprehensive than a comprehensive in a non-grammar area. There are three comprehensives in my town and the exam results for all three schools are better on quite a few measures than Cranbrook School in Kent, for example. Which is pleasing but surprising.

LaQueen, in an area where there are no grammars, where do you think the really really bright kids go? Academy Outer Space?

They go to what you call the 'local comp' (why are grammars in all-grammar areas not called 'the local grammar' in that dismissive way, I wonder?)

In my DS's S London Comprehensive School there are children who are astoundingly bright. Super-selective, brighter than bog-standard grammar fodder. And a representative % who are very bright. Routinely the top set kids go to RG Unis and Oxbridge. (it is an area with a very high FSM %, too). There is also a representative number of kids across all ability bands. So the GCSE %'s are not as high as a grammar's would be. Obvious.

But there is absolutely no sneering or tormenting of clever kids, the solo violinists in the orchestra, the boys who perform in the award wining dance group, the sensitive boys, the non-fashion-toting girls....

I sincerely hope that the OP's dd ends up in the school where, for whatever reason, will be best for her and she does well.

But please let it not be based on outdated scaremongering about the horrors of the 'local comp' unless you are commenting on a particular known school and cohort.

There is a private school near us where a child recently committed suicide due to bullying and FB comments about weight. Numerous pupils have eating disorders, it is an acknowledged problem in the school. I wouldn't dream of making sweeping generalisations about all private schools and what they are like based on what was happening in this one.

'Sorry' Mum for taking time to get back , I got lost because of the three similar threads going on.

To answer your question Parmiter's has 73% high ability students 25% middle ability students and 2% low ability students. Watford Girls has 75% high ability 23% middle ability and 2% low ability students. This is actually a more academic make up than both DD2 and DS grammar's in Kent that have only 68% and 70% high ability students. There is no question that the 73% and 75% high ability students and possibly the majority of the middle ability students are 'grammar' school kids. Parmiter's and the Watford Schools are 'Grammar' schools lying under the 'Political Correctness 'banner by being called Comprehensives.

'LaQueen, in an area where there are no grammars, where do you think the really really bright kids go? Academy Outer Space?

They go to what you call the 'local comp' (why are grammars in all-grammar areas not called 'the local grammar' in that dismissive way, I wonder?)'

No, some of them go to the comp, some of them go private. The proportion will vary massively depending on the general wealth of the area but it can be quite high.
We recently moved from a comprehensive area with a private school in town to one without. Makes a big difference to the average attainment levels at the local comprehensives.

Polonium - LaQueen - as you live in a GS area, your local non-selective school is likely to be less comprehensive than a comprehensive in a non-grammar area. given that the GS they chose has no catchment, I'm not sure that will be the case in the area they live in.

What I would question, based on the comments LaQueen has made, is whether they actually bothered to visit any of the non selective schools in their area.

You know deep down if she goes to less academic school she will coast, she will be top of the class doing not much and then get into bad habits

Until very recently I taught in a comprehensive/secondary modern, every year we sent students to Oxbridge and every year a large number to RG Universities. If teachers are doing their job properly and parents support the school - bright children will not coast in comprehensives.

smokepole Parmiter's and the Watford Schools are 'Grammar' schools lying under the 'Political Correctness 'banner by being called Comprehensives. so how are these schools achieving this with only 25% academic selection where as schools with 100% academic selection are not?

smokepole To answer your question Parmiter's has 73% high ability students 25% middle ability students and 2% low ability students. Watford Girls has 75% high ability 23% middle ability and 2% low ability students. This is interesting, could you post a link for me to where this information can be found. I would be interested in seeing how it compares with the other consortium schools. Thanks.

www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/school.pl?urn=136899

Totally agree with Blu.
I live in a grammar area and have no problem with grammars .
However, the scaremongering about the ' local comps ' really annoy me

Mum. I see someone has posted a link to the Performance Tables.

Another thing you will see by looking at different statistics , that most grammar schools don't have 100% high ability pupils and can have as low as 68% like DDs grammar. The majority of grammar schools have between 85% -95% of high ability students , in reality not that much difference from the make up of the Hertfordshire schools. The sixth form achievements from the Hertfordshire schools are up there with the most selective grammar schools. The sixth forms of the Hertfordshire schools must be 'very Selective' in the make up of students.

smokepole The sixth forms of the Hertfordshire schools must be 'very Selective' in the make up of students from what I understand, children already in the school automatically stay on for 6th form provided they get the minimum requirements (which certainly at Watford Girls Grammar and Parameters the majority of them do). Basically the vast majority of the 6th form is made up of those children already in the school (as is evident in their GCSE results). There are not huge numbers that leave. Therefore they are no more selective at 6th form than they are for year 7.

If you look at a map you will see all those schools are in close proximity (Dr Challoner's (comp), Rickmansworth School, Watford Boys', Watford Girls', Parmiters) and they are all based in the expensive commuter belt.

So what we have driving the results is as usual: wealth. Wealth is a form of selection on its own.

Polonium If you look at a map you will see all those schools are in close proximity (Dr Challoner's (comp), Rickmansworth School, Watford Boys', Watford Girls', Parmiters) and they are all based in the expensive commuter belt. Dr Challoner's is in Bucks not Herts and the 11 plus test for this school is CEM so a completely different format. What's more it is a couple of miles from Watford. Chesham Grammar (also a Bucks Grammar) is closer but still an hour journey away via public transport.

With regards to Parmiters, I have to question you comment about wealth as this particular school has three bedroom houses like these within half a mile of the school (so very much within the catchment):
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-47732147.html
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-31685145.html

The houses nearest Parmiters are actually amongst the cheapest in Watford.

However, your comments are true of Watford Boys and Watford Girls.

I meant the school that's in Chorleywood, the name escaoes me. Not Dr Challoner's sorry.