Advice wanted on wording this letter

[montrealmum]

Dear XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX,
We are writing to express our concern about the Year 8 Religious Studies Visit scheduled to take place this September.
Parents have been informed that girls who wish to attend the trip are required to wear trousers and a headscarf as a mark of respect for the religious institutions they will be visiting.
It is also our understanding that girls who do not wish to wear the headscarves or trousers, or whose families feel it does not accord with their beliefs, will be working on their own at school that day on Religious Studies coursework.
While I fully appreciate the need to dress respectfully on a visit to any religious institution, I feel I must draw a line at my very young daughter being compelled to wear clothing items intended for women to express their sexual modesty. Just as I feel it would be utterly wrong to compel a Muslim girl to remove her headscarf in order to participate in a school activity, so I feel it is wrong to compel my daughter, or any other girl, to wear one.
It would be very easy for us to simply agree to this request on the basis that the headscarf may be seen as nothing more than a temporary fashion accessory, to be worn for an hour or so. However, I am sure that a Muslim would not regard it as such, and nor do we. While respect for religious traditions is surely admirable, is it not the case that respect for our views as atheists and feminists are equally worthy of consideration?
We would urge the school to consider whether such an approach does truly promote community cohesion surely with a little more communication, an agreement could be come to which is mutually agreeable to all. We would hate to think that any girls first exposure to Islam would be one of unnecessary compulsion.
Perhaps an agreement that girls have the symbolism of the headscarf explained to them, and are given the option to wear one on the day, would be more conciliatory. Or at the very least, that an option is given to those girls who choose to abstain that is not tantamount to an internal exclusion.
Given these objections, we find ourselves in the unenviable position of having to choose between our sincerely held beliefs and putting our daughter in a position where she feels excluded and socially isolated.
We therefore reluctantly give our permission for her to attend on the day and follow the strictures set down, but do ask that you give serious thought to our concerns about this matter.
We would like to thank the school for their choice of role models for the girls, such as Rosa Parks and Emmeline Pankhurst, women who understood that following social conventions is not always the best choice to make.
Thank you for your time,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Going by previous posts by the op I would hate to be a teacher to one of her kids. Major chip on shoulder.

This is a horrible wind-up, right?

It's not a requirement for your child to attend, and if you choose not to be respectful of other religious or cultural protocols, in a sacred place, then you will have to pass on the opportunity.

Get a grip.

You do realise that not everyone takes such umbrage at being disagreed with?

I'm loving the irony of this statement from the OP.

OK, if boys have to cover their heads too in a mosque, that sorts the problem out - there's no difference between girls and boys.

I think that letter is a perfect example of all that's wrong in this world. Op come back and tell us all you were on the wind up.

I think it's striking how many people automatically default to race (even when it's actually religion, not race) trumps gender equality, and get incredibly angry when someone dares to challenge that state of affairs.

No wonder men are still paid more than women, there are only three women in the cabinet, only 20% of MPs, a couple of high court judges, company directors and so on...

I hope the answer is both boys and girls are expected to cover their heads so it isn't a problem. But can people not see that there is an issue here worthy of discussing?

Yes Buzzard I've been on several trips with my own children to synagogues, mosques, and temples, as well as churches - mostly with an Inter-faith group I belong to. I think it's always very interesting and an important part of their education. They've been on similar trips with their schools too.
Personally I don't have a problem with going along with reasonable dress codes or other simple practices as part of the experience.
Surely you can always talk over any interesting or thought-provoking differences with your DC and develop both own beliefs and respect and tolerance for others at the same time.
Basically it's all good!

Would people be quite so cross with OP if it was a Christian church/place of worship that demanded specific and potentially gender-specific dress code, I wonder?

I don't know of any particular examples, but say there was a visit to wherever Plymouth Brethren worship, and the PB demanded only girls cover their heads - would everyone be quite so condemnatory of the OP for daring to ask about it?

There are a few Muslim kids in our primary, dd2 is good friends with the girl in her year as they spend a lot of time together due to working in SN groups out of the main classroom. My dd asked what a mosque is because her friend goes all the time, same kids have for the past 6 year took part in the Christmas and Easter service in the local COE church on occasion having speaking parts (most kids have over the years). It is not their religion but they are still joining in and learning about a different religion which will do them no harm at all.

Would people be quite so cross with OP if it was a Christian church/place of worship that demanded specific and potentially gender-specific dress code, I wonder?
Absolutely. Vatican City is one such example. Tourists are asked to be respectful and women are asked to cover their arms (no strapless or spaghetti strap sundresses, for instance). If one isn't happy to do so, I think one should not expect to be made welcome there.

If my daughter or I choose not to comply, she will be required to spend the day on her own, excluded from her peers. This is not free choice. If you or I choose not to visit a religious institution, we do something else, that we choose to do.

Not correct. This is school. She doesn't get 'free choice' at all. She gets to do what she is told to do or to choose between the options that are set before her. In this case to wear the clothes prescribed and go on the trip. Or to not wear them and to not go. I assume she is not free to decide what clothes she wears for PE. She wears gym kit and takes part, or refuses to wear it and has to sit out.

Don't muddle an objection to not having 'free choice' with an objection to the reasons behind the clothing request.

Why not teach her that even though one may disagree, and that one's own values may differ, one can still show respect?

Wearing trousers and a headscarf does not, in an of itself, compromise atheist principles or beliefs. I would have far more sympathy if you were in the position where your daughter was being asked to do something that DID compromise your beliefs - for example a headscarf wearing Muslim girl being told that she could only participate in a school trip if she REMOVED her scarf. IMHO you would then be entitled to kick up an almighty stink and object in the strongest terms.

Would people be quite so cross with OP if it was a Christian church/place of worship that demanded specific and potentially gender-specific dress code, I wonder?

I'd still think it was nonsensical to expect the school to exert control over the religion, yes.

And in fact some churches do have similar requirements.

The OP isn't demanding that her daughter belittles Islam, where on earth did you get that from? She is merely concerned about school telling a little girl she has to cover her head.

As for respect for beliefs, surely that cuts every which way - the belief that women are equal to men is just as important and dearly held as the belief that all religions/belief systems are equally valid and no-one should be discriminated against for belief or lack of belief?

I hope the solution to this is 'not an issue, boys have to cover their heads too' but I'm baffled that people don't think there is anything worthy of debate here. Why do so many people on a largely female website think women should bow down to men as soon as religion is an issue?

I hope this is a wind up but sadly suspect it isn't. Its sad that someone can be so self absorbed and convinced of their own rectitude that they can make this more important than being courteous to someone who has kindly invited you into their place of worship which is very important to them. I'm assuming one of the reasons the visit is intended to break down many of the barriers that exist in our society, to promote tolerance and show that the vast majority of Muslims are decent kind caring people. Instead OP before your daughter before even gets there will like so many others already have misconceptions thanks to you making such a fuss about a head scarf, that is all we're talking about here. You should be ashamed of yourself, embarrassed about the way you behaved. If you wish to talk about covering your head do it after the visit, genuinely enquired how she felt about it, you might be surprised by her answers.
You keep mentioning Turkey and your experience there but Turkey is a secular state and has been since 1924.
I agree with the comments above it doesn't matter what religion it is in their place of worship/homes we must respect their religious laws and customs and where necessary dress appropriately so as not to offend.

I didn't say she belittles Islam - I am saying that as an invited guest you should respect the values and beliefs of your host. By not doing so is belittling - as I have already stated above the visit to the Sikh temple last week with my dd answered the questions around the covering of the head.

I am an atheist. I believe in equality.

Should children be taken to a place of worship and be told about your take on religion? HELL NO. They should go and be taught the actual beliefs both cultural and religious. This provides the platform for children to make their own decisions in life not dumb ass ones such as Montrealmums.

Montreal
The mosques you have visited are - by your own comments - those in the tourist areas of Turkey/Turkish occupied Cyprus.
They are as representative of normal mosques as Westminster Abbey is of a Scottish Kirk.
British Islam is predominantly Pakistani and Bangladeshi.
The children are visiting to experience the lifestyle not the architecture.
You are being very intolerant to not let your DD experience and then make up her own mind.

Bit edsm I very much doubt the point of the visit is to debate if "women should bow down to men as soon as religion is an issue" that could be something that could be talked about after the visit but would not be appropriate during the visit. I also doubt very much that the girls going will be asked to bow down to men on their visit just display good manners by not offending their hosts. In fact by wearing a scarf the girls will be able to get a idea as to how it makes a women feel thus prompt an interesting discussion once back at school.

Also I think it can help if you're clear in your own mind why you and your DC are following/complying with certain customs.

So, if I go to a mosque and wear a head covering I'm not doing it for exactly the same reason as followers of the faith may be. I may not even know what those reasons are, though can be interested to learn more.

But my primary reason will be as a mark of respect to those who have invited me into their place of worship, and also perhaps to enter more fully into the experience. But I can still keep my own beliefs and have my own thoughts about everything I experience.

I do think schools and parents could perhaps talk about all this more with children before and after visits to places of worship take place. As teachers understandably find this a tricky area for discussion in school all the more reason to continue the learning and discussion at home.

And really Turkey????? A tourist hotspot where the natives despair of the foreigners who have no respect for them or their land. I know I lived there for 11 years. You weren't asked to - but as a visitor you should have researched the place you were visiting and behaved in a manner as not to cause offence to the people who reside there. Your kids are lucky to have you as a mum -they must learn so much.

Stick to Blackpool in future, wear your flip flops and shorts with your strappy top as you evidently have no respect for others in their own countries.

Go to a temple in India or even a temple in Birmingham - the Sikhs offer refuge and food for all but only request you remove your shoes and cover your head. I bet you would be the sort of person who would be in the front of the queue if you had nothing.

The reason you cover your head in the Gudwara has nothing to do with sexuality BTW. It is about the body's energy leaving through the chakra that is on the top of your head. Men and Women are equal in Sikhism.

Why do so many people on a largely female website think women should bow down to men as soon as religion is an issue?

I don't. What a strange thing to suggest.

I think that, when entering someone's place or worship, you should show respect for those beliefs and behave in a manner according to those beliefs. You don't have to believe in them. I do not believe in god. However, when in a church, I behave and dress in an appropriate manner regardless of whether it goes against my personal wishes.

It's called religious tolerance.

This is not going at all well for OP.