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Secondary education

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Advice wanted on wording this letter

380 replies

montrealmum · 08/07/2014 19:36

Dear XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX,
We are writing to express our concern about the Year 8 Religious Studies Visit scheduled to take place this September.
Parents have been informed that girls who wish to attend the trip are required to wear trousers and a headscarf as a mark of respect for the religious institutions they will be visiting.
It is also our understanding that girls who do not wish to wear the headscarves or trousers, or whose families feel it does not accord with their beliefs, will be working on their own at school that day on Religious Studies coursework.
While I fully appreciate the need to dress respectfully on a visit to any religious institution, I feel I must draw a line at my very young daughter being compelled to wear clothing items intended for women to express their sexual modesty. Just as I feel it would be utterly wrong to compel a Muslim girl to remove her headscarf in order to participate in a school activity, so I feel it is wrong to compel my daughter, or any other girl, to wear one.
It would be very easy for us to simply agree to this request on the basis that the headscarf may be seen as nothing more than a temporary fashion accessory, to be worn for an hour or so. However, I am sure that a Muslim would not regard it as such, and nor do we. While respect for religious traditions is surely admirable, is it not the case that respect for our views as atheists and feminists are equally worthy of consideration?
We would urge the school to consider whether such an approach does truly promote community cohesion surely with a little more communication, an agreement could be come to which is mutually agreeable to all. We would hate to think that any girls first exposure to Islam would be one of unnecessary compulsion.
Perhaps an agreement that girls have the symbolism of the headscarf explained to them, and are given the option to wear one on the day, would be more conciliatory. Or at the very least, that an option is given to those girls who choose to abstain that is not tantamount to an internal exclusion.
Given these objections, we find ourselves in the unenviable position of having to choose between our sincerely held beliefs and putting our daughter in a position where she feels excluded and socially isolated.
We therefore reluctantly give our permission for her to attend on the day and follow the strictures set down, but do ask that you give serious thought to our concerns about this matter.
We would like to thank the school for their choice of role models for the girls, such as Rosa Parks and Emmeline Pankhurst, women who understood that following social conventions is not always the best choice to make.
Thank you for your time,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

OP posts:
montrealmum · 09/07/2014 11:21

Molio, my post of 10:28 was in response to another poster telling me, I did not want to be seen as " that mum ".

OP posts:
FidelineAndBombazine · 09/07/2014 11:22

And I'm a misogynist too? Wow, what a day I'm having Grin

FidelineAndBombazine · 09/07/2014 11:24

Molio is quite right (and sharp eyed);

montrealmum Wed 09-Jul-14 10:28:52

F and B, I really hope you're not right that anyone who tries to write a polite letter pointing out a reasonable objection to a school policy is summarily dismissed as a nuisance and a crackpot.
Not sure I want to teach my daughter the lesson, "if you have an opinion you feel it is important to express, better to just keep your mouth shut lest someone dismiss you as "that woman/girl/mother".

I didn't say "woman/girl/mother"

Woman/girl/mother was your phrasing OP. Why use it unless to suggest misogyny?

FidelineAndBombazine · 09/07/2014 11:25

reasonable objection to a school policy is hilarious BTW

Molio · 09/07/2014 11:27

Er............ possibly because you've made it clear you're a woman. So you're a mum. Not a dad. Of course there are 'those dads' too. Women don't have a monopoly on the kind of behaviour traits you're displaying.

Molio · 09/07/2014 11:30

Well FAB that's why I said the letter is all about OP. Very self absorbed and not even what it appears on the surface.

FidelineAndBombazine · 09/07/2014 11:30

Er............ possibly because you've made it clear you're a woman. So you're a mum.

The NN "MontrealMum" helped me crack the case TBF Smile

FidelineAndBombazine · 09/07/2014 11:33

Very self absorbed and not even what it appears on the surface.

Agreed.

BuzzardBird · 09/07/2014 11:35

I see that my post asking OP if she was aware that boys also have to cover up has been ignored.

Ohmydayz · 09/07/2014 11:36

Your letter is neither polite nor a "reasonable objection to school policy". Get it into your head that your child has been invited to partake in a visit to a religious place that has strict rules of conduct. The school do not police this.

Teach your daughter to express an opinion by all means - but tolerance and respect for others rates higher.

Ohmydayz · 09/07/2014 11:37

I really think the op is on a wind up.

FidelineAndBombazine · 09/07/2014 11:39

Could be Hmm

montrealmum · 09/07/2014 11:41

No, Buzzard Bird, not ignored. I don't know the answer as it is an all girls school.

OP posts:
edamsavestheday · 09/07/2014 11:45

Hang on, there is potentially a huge ethical issue here, where the rights of religious people to express their faith comes up against the rights of women to be treated equally. People can express their faith all they like but when they try to impose it on others it is a situation worth discussing. Normally you could just avoid mosques if being made to wear a headscarf worries you on equality grounds, but a school trip is different.

Montreal, did you ring the mosque to check what their requirements are for little girls, as opposed to the school's assumption? Do those requirements differ from those for boys?

Might be worth asking the school how this requirement complies with their duties under the Equalities Act not to exclude anyone on grounds of a protected characteristic e.g. gender, race, disability etc. One characteristic - e.g. race - does not trump another - e.g. disability. I am not sure whether religion is a protected characteristic at all, can't remember, but you could check with the Equalities Commission.

I hope the mosque can reassure you that headscarves are optional and you can explain to school they have gone overboard. I don't know why they didn't bother to check in the first place.

If it is a requirement girls wear scarves, that's trickier. Not sure what I'd do on ethical grounds. I don't mind people making a free choice to wear headscarves, that's their business, but to enforce it on little girls on a school trip, when they will be excluded if they say 'no'... it's a dilemma.

titchy · 09/07/2014 11:46

NOW she tells us!!!!!!

Right OP - allow yourself to be educated - men and women are required to cover their heads in a Mosque. Therefore there is NO anti-feminist agenda to be had at all. So she can go, secure in the knowledge that to do so does not go against her your feminist principles.

If you were a little more aware of the culture of others, and more tolerant of them, you would probably know this. Don't allow your daughter to be so unaware.

Ohmydayz · 09/07/2014 11:47

Definitely a wind up. Community cohesion/ first exposure to Islam - total nonsense - this is what they are being taught, this is what the religion is about! I am not Muslim but even I know the basics.

Molio · 09/07/2014 11:49

I asked the same question and was similarly ignored. The answer is that boys are asked to wear something to cover their head too. The failure to even turn your mind to that aspect of the issue really undermines you OP. If you want to get on a platform about something it's as well to do at least the elementary research.

BuzzardBird · 09/07/2014 11:51

My daughter's opinion is that it is silly girls have to wear something boys don't
So, you didn't say this then?

BuzzardBird · 09/07/2014 11:52

There are more holes in this story than your average jihab boo boo!

Ohmydayz · 09/07/2014 11:53

Edam - really????? Pfffft.

montrealmum · 09/07/2014 11:53

Thanks, Edam. Tried ringing mosque but goes straight to answerphone. Will try again later.

OP posts:
JugglingFromHereToThere · 09/07/2014 11:54

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread, but have read proposed letter and first page of responses and had a think. Hope that's good enough for most ....

I think you could encourage your dd to wear the requested items of clothing for the visit but at the same time you could explain your feelings about them ie. you could say that muslim women cover their heads for modesty but that you feel it's important that women and men can live and work alongside one another as equals and therefore that you're glad that in your culture you haven't been expected or asked to cover your head.

You could ask her to try it when on the visit as a mark of respect to those who've invited her into their special place, and ask her afterwards how she felt about the visit including wearing the head-covering? You might well find that other aspects of the visit were more interesting to her. Or she might have some thoughts about wearing the head-scarf too. HTH Smile

BuzzardBird · 09/07/2014 11:55

It's such a shame really because I have accompanied children on these religious school outings and they totally enjoy dressing up in the required respectful clothing. They learn stuff, can can I say?

Ohmydayz · 09/07/2014 11:55

It's simple - don't like the rules - don't engage. So much drama - still don't think it's real. I think the op is goady.

BuzzardBird · 09/07/2014 11:57

Oh, and for my final statement...

Welcome to MN OP (again)