Advice wanted on wording this letter

[montrealmum]

Dear XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX,
We are writing to express our concern about the Year 8 Religious Studies Visit scheduled to take place this September.
Parents have been informed that girls who wish to attend the trip are required to wear trousers and a headscarf as a mark of respect for the religious institutions they will be visiting.
It is also our understanding that girls who do not wish to wear the headscarves or trousers, or whose families feel it does not accord with their beliefs, will be working on their own at school that day on Religious Studies coursework.
While I fully appreciate the need to dress respectfully on a visit to any religious institution, I feel I must draw a line at my very young daughter being compelled to wear clothing items intended for women to express their sexual modesty. Just as I feel it would be utterly wrong to compel a Muslim girl to remove her headscarf in order to participate in a school activity, so I feel it is wrong to compel my daughter, or any other girl, to wear one.
It would be very easy for us to simply agree to this request on the basis that the headscarf may be seen as nothing more than a temporary fashion accessory, to be worn for an hour or so. However, I am sure that a Muslim would not regard it as such, and nor do we. While respect for religious traditions is surely admirable, is it not the case that respect for our views as atheists and feminists are equally worthy of consideration?
We would urge the school to consider whether such an approach does truly promote community cohesion surely with a little more communication, an agreement could be come to which is mutually agreeable to all. We would hate to think that any girls first exposure to Islam would be one of unnecessary compulsion.
Perhaps an agreement that girls have the symbolism of the headscarf explained to them, and are given the option to wear one on the day, would be more conciliatory. Or at the very least, that an option is given to those girls who choose to abstain that is not tantamount to an internal exclusion.
Given these objections, we find ourselves in the unenviable position of having to choose between our sincerely held beliefs and putting our daughter in a position where she feels excluded and socially isolated.
We therefore reluctantly give our permission for her to attend on the day and follow the strictures set down, but do ask that you give serious thought to our concerns about this matter.
We would like to thank the school for their choice of role models for the girls, such as Rosa Parks and Emmeline Pankhurst, women who understood that following social conventions is not always the best choice to make.
Thank you for your time,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Aliens in veils. Excellent

proudmama you're doing what OP has done - reducing or inflating the argument to the ridiculous. happygardening has distilled the issue to the very mild reality of what it actually is - good manners and respect. OP has clearly done the militant feminist thing of making it into a gender attack, which it isn't, and even if there were gender issues, which there aren't. one doesn't have to suspend one's own principles to stick on a scarf in order to take a few hours out to learn about a different culture. It's also incredibly arrogant to assume that our western way of living is superior and best.

Not ignoring your question proud just done a marathon bit of driving. "What is the mosque wanted them to wear veils?" I take it were talking here about a mosque asking it's female visitors to wear veils when they visit because this is what other women do? Do you know what I agree with a comment made by someone up thread, "their gaff their rules" so what if you wear a veil for a few hours, ditto veils and wimples, the world isn't going to come to an end it, you may believe that this is a sign of female oppression but I doubt a bunch of 12-13 yr old visiting for a few hours donning a mask out of courtesy to their visitors will feel overly oppressed. It would be an interesting experience they can they then comment on it from personal experience. I would like to hope the mosque would explain why they want women to do this, are open to questions and even an informed debate.
We have to respect others people beliefs and customs in a civilised society.

proudmama, I don't mind answering your ridiculous question, as the answer is so blindingly obvious.
If the Church of England changed its customs and rules entirely and began to require women to wear veils, and decided that visitors to St Paul's would be asked to wear veils, then yes, I would wear a veil.
Why do you have to ask? I think everyone you are arguing with has been quite clear in saying that the right thing to do is to observe religion-based requests regarding dress code as a guest in a place of religious observance.

Thanks for answering my question even those of you who think its ridiculous.

Why do you have to ask? I think everyone you are arguing with has been quite clear in saying that the right thing to do is to observe religion-based requests regarding dress code as a guest in a place of religious observance.

No, no brdgrl. Everyone has not been clear if they would go to the extreme of wearing a veil up until this point. It's such an interesting viewpoint. I can't relate to it at all

bye for now

proud if I wear a veil or any other religious item of clothing on visiting a religious building when asked too or eat certain food and avoid other goods when under someone's I'm doing this because I think is courteous and respectful I don't have to agree with them. What is wrong with that? Why can't you relate to simple good manners?

Well proudmama I'm another one who would wear a veil or indeed anything which was customary if asked. The principle doesn't shift with the item of clothing. However, it's clear that you take the dubious philosophical position that your way/ religion/ lack of religion/culture is best.

Molio,

You would wear "indeed anything which was customary if asked". Are you free Friday night? ?
Perhaps the solution to this whole debacle is the scrapping of the current narrow RE curriculum in favour of one that allows pupils to take a more objective and religiously neutral approach to moral and ethical issues? Say, Philosophy and Ethics, as often taught in Europe?

Molio, Answer the question - if it would be good manners and respect to wear a headscarf in a place where that is traditional, why not a veil? Why not indeed, anything you are asked, so long as it is "traditional". This is seriously the value you hold most dear and think the most important? "Just do whatever they say, sweetie, it's traditional! "
Glad I'm not your kid.

Happygardening,
Good manners only count as such when freely given in the spirit they are intended. Thus my point - the girls would end up being far more respectful of a tradition they were freely able to take part in than one in which they have their arms twisted.
Perhaps the RE teacher is looking to recruit a new generation of atheists! Huzzah!

OP, I've read most, thought not all, of the thread, so I apologise if someone else has suggested this.

You object to your daughter being forced to wear a headscarf. However, as I'm sure you're aware many educated Muslim women choose to wear the hijab for myriad reasons. Could you suggest to the school that they bring in a female, Muslim guest speaker who would be willing to explain her reasons for wearing the hijab to the pupils?

Good manners only count as such when freely given in the spirit they are intended. Thus my point - the girls would end up being far more respectful of a tradition they were freely able to take part in than one in which they have their arms twisted.
Your daughter is not required to participate. If you or she is going to act rudely about accepting the invitation (which is what this is, make no mistake!), then it is better not to accept at all.

montrealmum it may be a puzzle for you to ponder that my three girls are out there doing fine in the most ultra competitive of environments standing completely equal with men. They don't need to shout about it though or stamp their feet about gender issues, they seem to just be getting on with it. And from what I see men respect them absolutely as on a par, if not better, depending on the man. It seems to me that in their world it's about merit not gender and possibly that's in small part because that's the approach I've always taken myself, since it makes sense.

I suspect your DD may not fare quite so well, and that may well be down to you.

Ham,
A very good suggestion. You are not the first to propose that the meaning and reasons for wearing a headscarf be fully explained to the girls, and as mentioned up post, that will definitely make up a part of my discussion with the school.

Brdgrl, don't be silly.
It's not an invitation. This is not a dinner party. The school are trying to fulfil what they conceive to be the curriculum.

Incidentally the philosophy and ethics component of the A2 specification has been rejected today by Michael Gove, who wants more 'religion'. You need to keep up to the minute montrealmum, you're coming across as yesterday's news.

Actually, Molio, I think that's great, and it goes back to something I said up post about not explicitly teaching my children about feminism but trying to live it instead.
I know that we can't all stamp our feet about everything that pisses us off, but equally, there comes a time when something really gets your goat, and that time or issue is different for everyone.
God help us (pardon the irony) when the day comes when we feel we can't say that.

Michael Who?

Yesterday's news? What, like ME will be in the near future?

Yesterday's news? What, like ME will be in the near future?

Sorry, MG, typo.

Molio, don't make fatuous predictions about my daughter's success in life. You don't know her, or me. Stick to the point.

I'm going to support OP. The rationale behind women covering their heads in a mosque in Islam is so men are not distracted from prayer. Thus, you are putting the onus on women not to distract/excite the men with their hair. To me this is actually similar to saying women shouldn't wear short skirts as they will attract unwanted sexual attention. It's easy to say headscarf are about respect and when in Rome etc but in doing so you are reinforcing a fairly offensive principle.

Critical thinking is everything. Respect IS important but to me that would mean not attending a mosque as I cannot adhere to the rules. Respect to me means being polite and kind to all my fellow humans - but it doesn't mean following rules that I fudementally disagree with.

I'm with you OP.

The school are taking your DD as part of the curriculum but the mosque have given them permission to come. My DS has been on some of these visits on every occasion the people who worship/work at them have bent over backwards to make then welcome so therefore in my eyes equivilsnt to an invite.
Courtesy respect and good manners don't just count if freely given in the spirit they are intended. Most children have reluctantly gone to the party of an aged relative somewhat reluctantly and been polite and thanked them very much for inviting them when in reality try wish they weren't there. But there presence brings pleasure to the elderly person and that what counts. I'm am a natural non conformist but even I've learnt that In life we all have to do things we don't want and look like we're enjoying it, or go along with some petty rule that we think is ridiculous but the more we moan about it the worst were going to feel and usually it's just better to get on with it because other positives out weigh this minor details. Or if I feel that strongly about something and cannot just get on and do then I would withdraw completely from what ever it is Im being asked to do. I believe you have that option.

With the OP on what grobag?

The thread is about a ranty letter to the school, criticizing the school for observing the dress requirements of the mosque.