Advice wanted on wording this letter

[montrealmum]

Dear XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX,
We are writing to express our concern about the Year 8 Religious Studies Visit scheduled to take place this September.
Parents have been informed that girls who wish to attend the trip are required to wear trousers and a headscarf as a mark of respect for the religious institutions they will be visiting.
It is also our understanding that girls who do not wish to wear the headscarves or trousers, or whose families feel it does not accord with their beliefs, will be working on their own at school that day on Religious Studies coursework.
While I fully appreciate the need to dress respectfully on a visit to any religious institution, I feel I must draw a line at my very young daughter being compelled to wear clothing items intended for women to express their sexual modesty. Just as I feel it would be utterly wrong to compel a Muslim girl to remove her headscarf in order to participate in a school activity, so I feel it is wrong to compel my daughter, or any other girl, to wear one.
It would be very easy for us to simply agree to this request on the basis that the headscarf may be seen as nothing more than a temporary fashion accessory, to be worn for an hour or so. However, I am sure that a Muslim would not regard it as such, and nor do we. While respect for religious traditions is surely admirable, is it not the case that respect for our views as atheists and feminists are equally worthy of consideration?
We would urge the school to consider whether such an approach does truly promote community cohesion surely with a little more communication, an agreement could be come to which is mutually agreeable to all. We would hate to think that any girls first exposure to Islam would be one of unnecessary compulsion.
Perhaps an agreement that girls have the symbolism of the headscarf explained to them, and are given the option to wear one on the day, would be more conciliatory. Or at the very least, that an option is given to those girls who choose to abstain that is not tantamount to an internal exclusion.
Given these objections, we find ourselves in the unenviable position of having to choose between our sincerely held beliefs and putting our daughter in a position where she feels excluded and socially isolated.
We therefore reluctantly give our permission for her to attend on the day and follow the strictures set down, but do ask that you give serious thought to our concerns about this matter.
We would like to thank the school for their choice of role models for the girls, such as Rosa Parks and Emmeline Pankhurst, women who understood that following social conventions is not always the best choice to make.
Thank you for your time,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

@ 'lunatic bangs'

Buzzard that's very funny! .

Blimey, what a lot of cross people. Seems odd that daring to question what is claimed to be a religious requirement - although the school hasn't checked - is treated as such an outrage.

Juggling "I do think schools and parents could perhaps talk about all this more with children before and after visits to places of worship take place."

I'm tempted to say 'Amen to that'. If the OP's dd's school had a. checked whether scarves are required for 11 year old girls and b. discussed the significance of wearing headscarves and why they were asking girls to do it then it would have been very helpful and quite possibly reassuring for the OP.

Just issuing an order that headscarves must be worn or you'll be left out risks causing all sorts of misunderstandings and resentment - and potential conflicts with the school's legal duties under the Equalities Act.

edam the school doesn't need to 'check' something so blindingly obvious. It will have done this visit for years. It isn't a question of 'daring to question'. It's a question of being a self-publicist, demonstrably ill-informed, narrow minded and quite possibly thick.

There is no compromise of the school's legal obligations under the equalities legislation.

I can't believe that the op can write reasonably eloquently with grammatically correct English yet be so bigoted. So I'm assuming it's either a wind up or a reverse aibu.

Respecting and accommodating the beliefs and perspectives of others is basic courtesy and shouldn't be treated as an opportunity to score anti religion points

Edamsavestheday,
I am still ringing but the number provided on the website goes straight to answerphone and says the mailbox is full so you can't leave a message.
The Islamic Awareness and Education Project website publishes guidance for teachers planning a mosque visit, but says that "electronic versions of the notes are not available due to public accessibility of the website. "

Montreal
Read this thread and follow the links
community.tes.co.uk/tes_religious_education/f/40/t/657621.aspx

Thanks, talkinpeace. The London Central Mosque website does say girls and women must cover their heads, arms and legs, but makes no mention of dress code for boys.

Montrealmum ,

Reading that site I would say that by implication boys must wear long trousers and a shirt or top with sleeves . (IE no shorts or singlet type tops )
So your daughter (it would seem, and you will check ) has an additional obligation , the headscarf, to go on the trip. However , parents of boys would , if they held as strong opinions as you, still have to decide whether they wanted their son to go on a trip where girls were treated differently - so to that extent I think the headscarf is a red herring..

FWIW , I think that you are very wise to allow her to go even though reluctantly and it jars with your deeply held beliefs.

Firstly , she will get the opportunity , if she wishes, to ask the guide about dress for Muslim women . If she is polite and respectful I am sure that she can get across the point that she is being respectful of their beliefs by wearing a scarf and not hypocritical. In turn I am sure they will respect her for doing so. (Sorry got caught in a vortex of respect there)

Also, as far as I see it , we do not live in a single issue world. Yes , equality is important . However Islam has historically been an important force and is (religion aside ) an important factor in world politics. It would be a shame if your daughter could not explore the religion and talk to people who practice it , because of an issue about wearing a headscarf. I knew I was getting old when I stopped thinking there was always an ideal option , just sometimes a least worst one. Now that you know the rules I think you are sensible to compromise on the headscarf to allow her gain some insight into this religion.

I think, given how strongly you feel , you would be better as I think you and PPs have said , to explain to the teacher about your disquiet and suggest the girls have a follow up discussion in class about the trip , to include thoughts on the headscarf. Also , you will be able to have a discussion with DD about it where you can explain your views and she has some understanding of the other point of view. She can then make up her mind.

I personally would just do it for the sake of showing respect for people's beliefs . You clearly feel more strongly. I don't agree with you ,but I absolutely respect your right to your opinion. I think had you decided not to send her , in my opinion only , you would have been throwing the baby out with the bath water.

I hope she has a productive trip.

SE

Thank you, SheEvelyn, a brilliant post.
I take your point about my son visiting a mosque and confess I hadn't considered it yet as he hasn't yet been invited on such a trip. But you are right that it will present exactly the same dilemma.
I especially like your idea of suggesting they have a follow up discussion to include the wearing of the headscarf.I will definitely include that suggestion in my communication with the school.
Can I also say, you have confirmed my belief that if you ignore random abuse for long enough, someone genuinely intelligent will turn up?
Thanks again.

The problem is that OP is imposing her views about gender equality on those who have merely offered the opportunity to her DD to visit their mosque (this is leaving aside the fact that my boys were all definitely asked to cover their heads, but I accept I don't know if that rule is universal).

Besides, there is actually no reason why gender equality should be seen as a weightier personal belief than religious belief. The OP would have a hard job asserting that.

montrealmum it may not be a measure of these few posters' intelligence that they throw you a crumb of comfort with your offensively bigoted argument. Have you considered that it might be quite the reverse :)

Montrealmum - if you accept (pending your checks) that a headscarf is a request made of visitors to the mosque how would you have liked the school to have handled the proposed visit?

BTW, I would feel more confident if I thought my daughter would ask such questions, but I'm pretty sure she would feel too embarrassed to.
My son, on the other hand. ..
Interestingly, when we discussed it as a family, his initial response was that sexism didn't really happen anymore, and was just something that used to happen "in the olden days".

Molio

I am not sure if that was meant for me but I did actually try to step back and give a measured opinion in what has been a "heated debate" . I disagree with the OP's views. I think I said that . That said , she is going to send her DD on the trip and I was just trying to explain why I thought that was right. Just a different tack .

Hey ho

Molio, I am suggesting that gender equality be given equal credence to religious beliefs and that the girls be given the opportunity to choose whether to wear the headscarf or to opt out in a manner which doesn't stigmatise them.
I believe you are purposefully being obtuse.
And I think SheEvelyn is more intelligent than you not because she agrees with me, which she has clearly said she doesn't, but because her post demonstrates clearly that she is.

SheEvelyn could show her post to anyone and gain respect, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want anyone who knows you in the real world to see yours.

Agreed Molio.

OP lots of us have been 'genuinely intelligent', I believe myself included. We have just disagreed with you.

SheEvelyn it would have been too long winded to add a caveat, but no, it wasn't intended for anyone in particular other than OP. It's obviously a sign of great weakness to claim that only those who agree, or partially agree, or appear to agree with you are intelligent. How stupid that makes the asserter seem!

OP please dissect my posts and SheEvelyn's post to demonstrate exactly how these posts indicate superior intelligence on Evelyn's part. Evelyn may well be far more intelligent than me, I concede, but does her post alone actually evidence that? Go on humour me! If you can.

Let's review:

1. As a family, we have discussed the trip and the implications of wearing a headscarf.
2. I am giving permission for my daughter to attend.
3. I am writing a letter to the school expressing my disquiet about the way this has been handled.

According to Molio, this amounts to "imposing my views" and being "offensively bigoted". Thus my doubts about the intelligence of this person.

Incidentally OP there's no stigma in opting out to work on a project at school. A missed opportunity to inform oneself perhaps, but no stigma. A possibility of being lauded even, for standing up for one's mother's beliefs, against the tide of acquiescent male dominated peers. Potential even to become the school bore on women's rights, spouting hackneyed arguments unthinkingly at every turn. An opportunity then, not a penalty?

BTW, I would feel more confident if I thought my daughter would ask such questions, but I'm pretty sure she would feel too embarrassed to.
My son, on the other hand. ..
Interestingly, when we discussed it as a family, his initial response was that sexism didn't really happen anymore, and was just something that used to happen "in the olden days".
So, your daughter is embarrassed to ask questions about religion and gender, and your son thinks sexism doesn't exist anymore.
You're worried about the school, and convinced that you have the right approach to educating your children.
Interesting.

Perhaps this is unfair. Maybe you are highly intelligent, but lack basic skills in reading comprehension. Either way, you're shadow boxing.

Your bigotry comes in not understanding or accepting that there may be perfectly valid views on certain issues other than your own monochrome view.

You are attempting to assert the superiority of your views by writing the letter and by phoning the mosque to quibble and pester.