'State schools are creating amoral children'

[BurgenSnurgen]

...because state schools are under so much pressure to improve results that there's no time to teach them right from wrong.

So says Chairman of the Independent Schools Association

Bit speechless really. It's giving me the absolute RAGE.

Slip on an attitudal (is that a word?) level I agree. And Oxbridge expend a lot of time and energy trying to encourage students from those communities to at least consider us, or places like us.

But the schools must play their part. These candidates have to be ready. Raw talent aint enough.

Anyway, with reference to the op, Richard Walden has written to today's Times, explaining he thinks state schools are doing a fine job but that colleagues in that sector tell him pressure to get results mean they cannot spend the time on non academic /moral education that they would like to. He claims he independent sector is able to attend to these aspects more easily because of lack of government interference and pressure.

Which is what we might have expected he meant anyway.

I think the independent sector is under as much pressure if not more to get results, when parents become the customer they are more demanding.

"But the schools must play their part. These candidates have to be ready. Raw talent aint enough."

Absolutely

And privileged kids (like mine) will be ready regardless of their school. Because I know how the system works. Because elite universities are on their radar. Because they can ask family members and friends about their university experience. Because they have been brought up to think that going to university is normal, ordinary and what people do. When my dd recently filled in her UCAS form, we knew people with experience of every university on her list.

How is that not the most colossal advantage over someone whose family have all left school at 16 at the latest? I am currently mentoring a girl from a family where nobody has stayed at school past 14. Ever. She has a loving and involved mother. But when 6th form was suggested, she said "why would you waste your time with crap like that?"

And I am patronizing for suggesting that the playing field is not exactly level!

Well to play devil's advocate, her approach might have some sense in it. What are you mentoring her towards? She might well see more rational sense in studying landscape gardening/ salon management/ AAT exams . And she might be right because whatever work a philosopher from Edinburgh or a Durham classicist goes into, it is likely to entail further costly training and getting a position probably needs some of the soft skills and cultural capital imparted by the families - something which will be far harder won by your young mentee - even if she is interested in gaining it in the first place.

Mart I am slightly uncomfortable with a colonial style attitude that imposes our views of what is best for an individual.

"Mart I am slightly uncomfortable with a colonial style attitude that imposes our views of what is best for an individual."

But perfectly happy with a colonial style attitude that "keeps them high or lowly and orders their estate"

'Aristocratic nations are naturally too apt to narrow the scope of human perfectability; democratic nations to expand it beyond compass'

De Tocquville

I suspect de Toquville would have agreed that the ho polloi should be offered fair access to the aristocrat's preserve as well as the other way round.

Ok Mart I think most people accept that some have more advantages than others, and it's not all about private ed either as you acknowledged, but can you tell me how sending my DS to our high achieving academy stuffed with other white comfortably off MC families (we have one of the highest grad populations in the UK here by the way) or too the super selective in the next county helps these disadvantaged children in any way? It doesn't.
I dont know what will help them God I wish I did but I do believe lifting them out of poverty is the first thing we should.

You are embracing the 'I know what's best for you' which is rather patronising of people's life choices and family backgrounds

My post was of course relating to Mart's rather dogmatic previous ones.

Yes. He admired those who worked for the common good.

My post was of course relating to Mart's rather dogmatic previous ones.

"You are embracing the 'I know what's best for you' which is rather patronising of people's life choices and family backgrounds"

No I'm not. And nothing I have said suggests that I am. You are projecting your attitudes on to others.

You, however are embracing the "it's no use giving the poor baths. They will only keep coal in them" attitude.

I'm all for anyone with the right ability applying to university (best three years of my life) regardless of their background, I think it's a great idea, but my actions and my choices aren't stopping them.

Is there anyone here that would sacrifice a child's place at private school, or/and Oxbridge "for the sake of society"?

No. Good thing nobody's being asked to, isn't it?

Actually, what do you mean by "sacrificing a child's place at private school"? Because if you mean "choosing not to send their child to private school" then, yes.

Gandhi did. But his kids never got over it.

But if I did sacrifice my DS's place it wouldn't make any difference to society that's why no one is lining up to offer to do it! He's no less likely to get into Oxbridge if I sent him to our local state school.
I just do to understand why you don't get this.

So you chose not to send your child to private school Martorana, even though they got a place?

He's no less likely to get into Oxbridge if I sent him to our local state school.

Not so sure about that at all. For a start, private school kids get tutored in it dont they? And they are feeder schools? Oxbridge like them because they know what they are getting?[prob all that lot has been discussed before, so no worries].

A system of education which implies that some children are born smarter than others (research has shown genes have no influence) is what children are learning every day. No wonder children in the 'bottom' state schools don't give a about morals, or their parents for that matter, most of whom see from a very early age that their children will never be able to compete with the advantaged in the workplace and are largely destined to get the lower paid jobs.