'State schools are creating amoral children'

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...because state schools are under so much pressure to improve results that there's no time to teach them right from wrong.

So says Chairman of the Independent Schools Association

Bit speechless really. It's giving me the absolute RAGE.

I agree with that Bonsoir but I think it would be a great shame if Oxbridge were hampered in that competition by coming under so much pressure to make offers they felt inappropriate.

And I say that as someone completely committed to widening access at Oxbridge.

A shame? No, of course not. They need to make themselves more attractive if they cannot get the candidates they want.

My understanding, some of which comes from Word's posts on here, is that Oxbridge are actually actively trying to broaden the educational and social background of their undergraduates, and are funding active outreach programmes to try to make that happen.

HG. I am sure your ds is not actively thinking "I will meet people like me at Oxbridge" I'm sure it has never crossed his mind. It never crosses the mind of my dd either. Which is rather my point. They don't have to think about it. They know people who went to Oxbridge and other elite universities. Their clothes and accents and table manners will fit in. They have been to restaurants and into Gothic churches...........A small but significant part of the journey is over without them even realising they have set out.

Those London universities have been more than competitive with Oxbridge for some time depending on the courses. WordFactory's point is that they may be less dependent on pc quotas than Oxbridge and self select for those who can afford London accommodation or can live at home.

What should schools and as importantly we as parents who also have a lot of influence over his life do Mart to encourage those from disadvantaged background to apply to top universities. Encourage my DS to speak with a glottal stop, show him endless episodes of Eastenders and never take him to an art exhibition or a cathedral?
Personally I think your being patronising of the disadvantaged.

I do hope that a lot of the children educated at places like Winchester DO go on to do important, world-saving scientific research and the like and don't waste their educations on banking and finance with a view to ensuring they can afford to pay for their own kids to go to their old school. I have a bit of a problem with the idea of a fantastic education going almost exclusively towards feathering your own nest at the expense of others'. (fox among pigeons?... )

I'm delighted and frankly relieved to report rabbit my DS has very recently experienced a life changing event and he's now adamant that he has no intention of feathering his own nest at the expense of other by entering banking or finance.

The life changing event was delightful by the way but hopefully some good will come out of it.

""What should schools and as importantly we as parents who also have a lot of influence over his life do Mart to encourage those from disadvantaged background to apply to top universities. Encourage my DS to speak with a glottal stop, show him endless episodes of Eastenders and never take him to an
Personally I think your being patronising of the disadvantaged"

Eh?

Aarrrhhh try again the life changing event wasn't delightful but I'm hopeful something positive will emerge from it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you were implying that children from disadvantaged backgrounds are put off applying to top universities because of the way children from some independent schools dress and speak and their life experiences e.g. eating in restaurants and visiting a Gothic churches I think that's rather patronising.

You don't need to be privately educated for Oxbridge but you do need to be 'ready to go' - to have reached a point where you can benefit from the teaching and the extras there. I sometimes think there is too much emphasis in the media on getting the disadvantaged into Oxbridge specifically rather than into a good university - or into studying for a professional qualification. If you are truly disadvantaged, it can be a bit of a leap. Especially in arts/humanities where cultural capital plays a part. I'm not trying to discourage anyone as I feel if interested you should have a go.

Getting into Oxbridge certainly is n't a golden ticket for earning lots of cash if you have a leaning towards academia so rabbit it may well be that the future bankers / high earners won't be arising from those who are best educated. I wonder how many mumsneters who went to Oxbridge or equivalent are actually in high earning careers.

Oxbridge is far fuller of youngsters aiming for the city than it used to be.

DN is at Oxford definitely aiming for a high earning nest feathering job. That's what his patents expect but then they are in high earning nest feathering jobs so it's hardly surprising.

Quite a few of those are overseas / Europeans and doing economics .

HG- please don't pretend not to understand. Read my post again. Or not. I don't really care.

For privileged people to cover their eyes and ears and say "I see no privilege-my private/grammar educated child will not find it any easier to go down the Oxbridge/elite university route than any other child from any other background" is frankly disgusting.

"I see no privilege-my private/grammar educated child blank blah blah" ( can't copy and paste.)
Where have I disgusted you by saying this? You do me a disservice Mart I genuinely didn't in fact don't understand!

Good luck to your ds, happy. I hope he's successful and makes a positive difference for the benefit of us all.

Thanks we shall wait and see. Being a bit of a leftie I hope he sticks to the principle of not feathering your nest at others expense.

I think the comment in the original article is seems to assume there is a single "gold standard" of moral behaviour.

This is not the case - it changes radically from generation to generation. If the majority of children are being brought up as so called "amoral" then this will simply become the new normal.

The private school children will be left outraged and Mary Whitehouse-like out of step with the consensus. Not sure that justifies 100k over 13 years.

slip is right on two counts; an applicant does need to be ready for Oxbridge. What I have seen very clearly as part of the access scheme is that as much, if not more effort needs to be made by schools. The responsibility to bridge the advatange gap cannot be all down to the universoties. Second, Oxbridge is packed with those aiming for the city. There's a joke that historians first passion is history, until they do their law conversion course.

Imperial has always (well, for 30+ years at least) provided very serious competition for Oxford. Obviously in its own niche areas.

I agree herc and I would say other placed too. And they are being given the quiet freedom to choose who they like.

There is a 'levelling' attitude in less advantaged communities that often mitigates against efforts schools might try make to prepare students.