'State schools are creating amoral children'

[BurgenSnurgen]

...because state schools are under so much pressure to improve results that there's no time to teach them right from wrong.

So says Chairman of the Independent Schools Association

Bit speechless really. It's giving me the absolute RAGE.

Thank you slipshod. summer and I send our DS's to the same school maybe like me she hasn't seen him for nearly four weeks, my DS can only come home on a Y Sunday, and they're revising like stink for their IGCSE's, the sun is shinning, I'm excited he's on his way home and I thought I'd slightly and briefly hijack this thread, although God knows it's seems it's already been hijacked, by sharing my pleasure that my DS is about to walk in the door with someone else in my position whose DS may also about to walk in the door. Sort of normal human behaviour in my book.
But to keep you in the loop Mart I'll share my happiness with you too. My DS who I love dearly and I haven't seen for nearly 4 weeks and has already done loads of IGCSE's is on his way home for the day because they can leave at 9 30 after chapel (a Y Sunday), the sun is shining, we're going to have a lovely family lunch outside and go for a walk and I'm so excited.
No old boys school tie stuff or excluding the less privileged just one happy mum sharing with another.

HG I understand where you are coming from. Have a lovely day with your DS and good luck to him and all other taking exams in the next few weeks.

going hope your DC's are all happy too.

He's here n car pulling up, over and out, I hope you all have a lovely day with your families long may the sun keep shinning.

Enjoy

All walks of life have their own shorthand, but the nomenclature of different weekly arrangements of a school is not going to last beyond school days whatever the type of school. Apologies for using that shorthand but it arose from the shared excitement of seeing our DC after an absence, something that is a universal parental feeling, whether the reason is due to boarding at a private school, university, trips or whatever.

Lucky weekend to be able to see your boys - fantastic weather!

I think it comes down to what the individual is happy with. My children have been right through the comprehensive system and they are all now doing exactly what they want to be doing- they would be doing exactly the same had they gone to Eton- but I would be a lot poorer, we wouldn't have had the quality of life and they wouldn't have mixed with the entire range of backgrounds. I have had a tour of Eton ( the public one) and I was very impressed but it wouldn't have suited my DCs so I am not remotely jealous. I like the state system but it doesn't mean that I want to get rid of private education and I can see circumstances where I might have used it, for at least one child.

"I think it comes down to what the individual is happy with"

Only, as I said, if you believe that "there is no such thing a society".

A society has to be free to make their own choices, for some this will be paying for education. I will do the best for my children, most people are the same. We all have different ways of 'best'. Life is never equal.

"Life is never equal"

So we just accept that, do we? And not do anything to try and change it?

If it was equal I would like to have been born pretty with musical talent!

I think it has been proved that communism didn't work. I want to be free to spend my money skiing every year- I don't want to be told I can't. If someone wishes to spend their money on private education, designer shoes, a personal number plate, a horse, swimming lessons, a tutor, a nanny, boarding school, sailing dinghy etc etc etc etc they are free to do so. Who is to play God and say 'yes you can have swimming lessons but you can't have a personal number plate'?

I would be highly annoyed if people were free to have the latest car, buy a new pram, eat out weekly and yet I couldn't have an old banger, second hand everything and never eat out and pay school fees. Personal choice- what is wrong with it?

The moment a baby draws breath they are unequal. Even if you were to do the impossible and get them economically on par you can't get them emotionally on par. Some will be unloved, some will have parents with addictions, some will have a poor diet etc etc etc etc. Some will have disabilities, some will have special talents. Life isn't fair.

Personally I would be more annoyed with people paying to get their child through 11+ and taking it off a clever child who has not been 'trained' because their parents couldn't afford it or didn't see the need.

Are you jealous Martorana.
fwiw, I know several private educated grown ups, and they are no better off than the rest of us.
[I appreciate that some will be, but not really the ones that I know.]
They are not near London so perhaps that makes a difference?

Their families did used to have some wealth to back things up, but not sure they have that much left now.

[I do agree though that all the Etonians, and for that matter lawyers in Government is a problem]

[I always marvel at how threads start off talking about state, and end up talking about private education. Not sure why they do].

Choose what to do with your money I say.

Actually, if I scrimped on everything I still couldn't afford Eton, but I cant see why that should stop others. Again personal choice- salary is way down my list when deciding on a career. Am I supposed to stop people being top lawyers, company directors, MPs etc because I would find it boring or of no interest and would rather live in the countryside and have time to make jam, do my garden etc? Am I then to say I can only have state education for my children so you should do the same? It seems very odd- especially since I am a great supporter of state education and comprehensive schools. If I had won millions on the lottery I wouldn't have moved my children from their friends or a perfectly good education.

In an ideal world all would have equal opportunities but in the real world they obviously don't. I personally was unimpressed by the state provided options for my DS, many consider them to be excellent and chose to pay instead. Has my choice made any difference to the options/outcomes of the children at the state schools my DS could have attended? I very much doubt it.
Even if I had sent my DS to one of our local state options it wouldnt have made a scrap of difference to children in deprived areas attending failing schools.

Exactly, happygardening, there is no way that I would send my DCs to a failing school and I am lucky enough not to live in a deprived area. Life isn't equal. Martorana isn't going to send hers to a failing school in a deprived area for the common good of society! We all do the best we can for our children.

Martorana I really admire your drive to achieve a fairer education but parents who go private now will not just give all their money to state schools if private was abolished. Some will go to equivalent private schools outside the UK. As said by Delphinium, all want to have some choice in how their taxed income is spent whether choosing a particular style of education not found for their children in the state sector or spending it in trips and extracurricular activities outside school.

Don't get me wrong I'd like all to have wonderful opportunities when they go to school but however hard I try I just can't see how my choices are stopping this from happening.
I'm no more likely to become a school governor than take up pot holing (I suffer from claustrophobia), it's just not me. In my area my vote makes no difference, our MP is in a very safe seat, so what can I do?

The problems with our local state school, which my children have attended for years and I know inside out, are far reaching and well beyond what money can buy anyway. Even if it had thousands thrown at it, it couldn't fix some of its problems such as the hugely high staff sickness and consequent disruption, the massive class sizes, as there are no land to build on (was sold to developers many years ago) and the school can't say no to the LEA shoving 35 children per class every year.

The Head has no interest in children experiencing competitive sports or music (doesn't like either) and many options (including free ones) were presented but rejected. It isn't ALWAYS about money but the desire to make things happen. It is also about an obsession with SATS and league tables. I firmly believe that there are inspirational heads out there in both sectors, sadly none where we live apart from the big name independent.

"Even if it had thousands thrown at it, it couldn't fix some of its problems such as the hugely high staff sickness and consequent disruption,"

Yep. that is familiar. But that is more often than not down to stress and unhappiness amonst the staff. And sadly the pressure on heads to jump his staff through endless hoops isn't conducive to a happy and stress-free environment.

""Even if it had thousands thrown at it, it couldn't fix some of its problems such as the hugely high staff sickness and consequent disruption,"

Yes it could. I bet one of the reasons for the hugely high staff sickness is stress caused by too much work and too few resources,

Money solves loads of problems!