'State schools are creating amoral children'

[BurgenSnurgen]

...because state schools are under so much pressure to improve results that there's no time to teach them right from wrong.

So says Chairman of the Independent Schools Association

Bit speechless really. It's giving me the absolute RAGE.

Those who've had one child in private school and another child in state, was this because you sent subsequent children private as you weren't happy with the first child's experience of state? Or because one got a scholarship the other didn't? Or different children needed different schools according to their needs etc?

I have 1 soon to be 2 in private and 2 in state. I removed my dd1 from her state primary as she was unhappy, unchallenged and hated going in every day. She is now happy. But having seen the differences I want my other children to move in ks2 as well.

I know by reading on mumsnet that there are state primary schools that offer lots of competitive sports, music, small class sizes, languages and a huge variety of oppotunities but sadly having visited all the schools in a 10 mile radius I couldn't find any.

Of course if a child does not want to learn or take advantage of the opportunities then they will not get the benefit. There are one or two children at dd's school that don't and maybe they just need a different environment...

Thanks for responding.

sppedwell I've 1 in both although they both went to boarding prep. DS1 (state) is "moderately dyslexic" his needs have been poorly met in both sectors, reports show he quite bright (top 5%) but under performs across the board but is not dyslexic enough for a specialist school. This significantly limited his choice at 13+ when he left prep. frankly I struggled to see the big difference between our "high achieving outstanding comp", we rural in one of the wealthiest parts of the UK, and the sort of independent school that would accept him and relieve me of £15k -35k a year, in many cases the comp had better results, the nearest possibly half decent school that would consider him was 50 miles away and over 1 1/2 hours away by train and car. For him we also felt he was better at home.
DS2 is at big name super selective boarding school, he's exceedingly bright and also exceedingly motivated, but mildly dyslexic. We are tired of paying fees and considered the "high achieving outstanding comp for him" after an assessment by the Senco she privately advised us not to send him to the school as he would be the "only one" with this ability and bored stiff, this had been our experience when he spent a brief period in a state primary many years ago. We have a super selective grammar in the next county who offered him a place at 13+ but again it was nearly 50 miles away and it involved me driving 10 miles to a local small town to get the bus and be free to pick him up at 4.45 I work and I thought it was a hideous exam factory. We are seeking for him a broad education that we believe boarding is best able to provide.

Oh, I o get bored saying this, but-

"I know by reading on mumsnet that there are state primary schools that offer lots of competitive sports, music, small class sizes, languages and a huge variety of oppotunities but sadly having visited all the schools in a 10 mile radius I couldn't find any"

Of course you couldn't find state schools that offered all of that. That's what you're paying for!!!!!!!!!

Nobody (are you listening, HG) says that state schools can provide everything that private schools can. Give them an extra 35k a year per child, though, and watch what happens!

Mart your bored or saying it and I'm a little bored of reading it, but many like Sovery genuinely do believe that "state schools can provide everything that private schools can". I accept that when it comes to some private schools there maybe little difference but as you and I know when it comes to the top schools the difference in provision is enormous.
But perhaps it doesn't matter providing you feel your schools whether you pay or not is doing what you want it to do, that your DC is thriving and achieving it only becomes an issue when this is not happening. But this issue also happens to parents who can't or are unable to pay those whose children are at what they believe are poor performing state school that they don't like because they couldn't get a place at what they believe is a better state school. MN seems to be full of threads this year about parents appealing because they are unhappy with the sate school they've been offered.

Marorana, and your point is??

You can't just go knocking on the door of your local state school and offer them 35K in the hope of then getting access to what's best for your DC.

Thanks HG.

No she doesn't. She said she looked at every state school in a 10 mile radius and not a single one could provide the music, sport and huge range of opportunities that a private school could.

Well, no shit Sherlock.

Martorana the veracity of your point is somewhat camouflaged by overvaluation of what the real difference in income per child between day state primary and an average day private primary, taking into account the state contribution etc. It would be interesting to know the real figures.

State schools cannot provide everything that private schools can, what about short terms and long holidays??

The staff:pupil ratio is a good indicator of the spend summerends as that's were most of the money goes.

What it all comes down to are we as individual parents happy with what our DC's are getting? DS1 now at a very well regarded 6th form college. Is very happy, I genuinely don't think he be happier if we did pay out £35+k a year. I accept he'd have more opportunities (which I suspect he wouldn't take full advantage of) and maybe slightly smaller classes but he's really blossomed since moving there, he likes it, the teacher for the first time in his school life like and him can actually see beyond his dyslexia to the person he is and appreciate him. He not going to emerge with three A*'s but I doubt he would emerge from anywhere with this.
In contrast I also genuinely believe that DS2 would be miserable, he personally likes and indeed thrives on the eclectic education offered by his boarding school, the intellectual stimulation and the way of life, we are unlikely many lucky to be in a position to choose what work for our individual children.

As summer (waves are you glad it's a Y Sunday we are) states £35+ (the very top end of current boarding fees) is paying for meals, buildings infra structure, cleaners, nurses, matrons, accommodation for staff, GP's laundry services! ect etc I would like to see their utility or food bills 700 teenage boys must eat you literally out of house and home. Not every penny of it is channeled into actual education however broad. I understand running all of this isn't cheap.

"What it all comes down to are we as individual parents happy with what our DC's are getting?"

No, it doesn't. Well, it only does if you believe "there is no such thing as society".

"What about short terms and long holidays??"
I'm not sure what point your trying to make pippi (it Sunday and I've had a busy week at work so apologies).
My DS's school does the literally the minimum school hours a child of this age is allowed to do. We have very long holidays, apart from this coming half term where he only gets half a week, slightly longer than all of our friends DC's at other boarding schools frankly I love it, it's one of the best things about it.
"The teacher:pupil ration is a pretty good indicator of the spend"
I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere the teacher pupil ration at DS2's is 1:7 I've no idea how that compares with others be they state or independent.

But why doesn't it Mart? If you are really happy with the education your DC's school provide whether it be Billericay Comprehensive, Do The Boys Hall or Eton isn't that what matters? I'm happy with DS1's current 6 th form college he loves it and is thriving. That's what I want.

Sorry Dotheboys not Do The Boys auto correct is extraordinary.

waves back at HG, double pleasure of Y Sunday and lovely day plus half term round the corner

DS is literally on his way home now summer we've not seen him since the end of the Easter holidays, he's been so busy with IGCSE revision. Can't wait yo see him he's absolutely shattered,

[grin]@subtle exchange of code words.

And they say the Old Boy Network is dead!

You'll be disappointed to hear Mart no old school tie, secret code words, ancient jargon or meaningless ritual just a simple means of identifying one Sunday from the next with regard to the timings of compulsory chapel, so we have X, Y or occasionally and of course most popularly with the boys Z: no chapel. All major institutions whether they be public or private will use letter/numbers to identify what appears to be similar events but that are actually different so that everyone can understand it.

Yep, I know. Surprisingly, some of us state school users know people who use lots of other sorts of schools too. I was just pointing out how the privilege thing works. In subtle little ways, like shared language. That's why there are more Etonians than women in the Cabinet.

But Mart my profession (public sector) is riddled with shared language we are frequently criticised for using to many code words (we come from all backgrounds), it's called making life easier. The alternative would be:
Me: "Hello darling is tomorrow a finish at 1130 after chapel Sunday or a finish at 9 30 after chapel Sunday."
DS "tomorrow's a finish at 9 30 after chapel Sunday."
X and Y seem much easier somehow.
It fits in the school diary easier, it like all code words is about convenience.
You really can take prejudice too far sometimes.

State schools running a timetable that changes/ doesn't fit into one week would use similar nomenclature.