'State schools are creating amoral children'

[BurgenSnurgen]

...because state schools are under so much pressure to improve results that there's no time to teach them right from wrong.

So says Chairman of the Independent Schools Association

Bit speechless really. It's giving me the absolute RAGE.

Good Lord, bonsoir, your name's not Walker is it? Or did you have a wardrobe full of fur coats upstairs? Or an Uncle Quentin?

They weren't cost-cutting exercises so much as a way of life - one that has largely disappeared among the MC. I disagree that people who restrict themselves couldn't afford fees today - but their lifestyle would be so out of sync with the MC majority as to be untenable.

Two generations ago lifestyles were even more different - after WW2 my GPs sent five DC to boarding school (right through), had a large house in the country and live-in staff, but drew water from a well (no mains) and only one inside bathroom for a household of 10. And no car. People don't live like that any more.

Did you have an ancient family retainer- a nanny who had looked after generations of the family's babies- ensconced in the old night nursery dispensing home spun wisdom to the rackety modern young people when they came for a Friday to Monday in the country?

Are there people who had a private education themselves unable to provide the same for their dc?

In my cohort, there are a few. Most of us were educated privately and the majority want the same for their own DCs.

There are some who cannot afford it and one couple I know who do not believe in private education on principle.

We probably all feel most comfortable with what we know. And judging by this and other threads on state vs private, we all made up our minds a long time ago and continue to push the cliched stereotypes back and forth.

I know people who would cry down as over privileged those whose children can go to a school without danger or one that has enough text books.

Comparatively, there is less difference between Eton and an inner London comp than between the comp and some of the schools my DP taught in around the world.

Right...and immediately with the 'inner London comp'. Sorry to bristle but that's my kids' school you're talking about.

Had you forgotten, MI? All of us supporters of state education are leafy.........

Win Coll stated in a recent annual report that it's increasing it's bursary fund for this reason, many old Wykamists can't afford the fees.

Charitable status in action...

Montego your right many stick with what we know and understand because this is where they feel comfortable.
I understand the "system" at my DS2's school, I feel comfortable talking to staff there, I like the way they deal with things I feel we're coming at things from the same place. Whereas I always struggled at my DS1's "high performing academy" I just felt slightly uncomfortable especially when dealing with the staff. I could never put my finger on why this was but I just felt we weren't coming at things from the same place.

Bonsoir - did your large drafty house with large garden have no central heating at all when you were growing up? Or do you mean your parents could waste huge amounts of energy on pumping out heat into radiators in drafty rooms that let most of the heat escape? That certainly wouldn't be so affordable these days (although if you sold said drafty house at the right time, and built a house on the old vegetable patch to sell, you could fund your grandchildren's private education very easily from the profits made). Large, drafty houses and gardens are colossal money pits. It's FAR cheaper living in a tiny house with no garden. You also save hugely on your heating bills if your house is attached to your neighbours' on both sides, as you can benefit from their radiators, too.

You also don't mention who did the gardening, DIY and housework, and whether if done by your parents, they also worked full time? As for the one holiday a year, thing, I'm surprised you seem to think that's abnormal these days. How many holidays are the middle classes supposed to be having, now? Clearly I must up our number.

And whether it had a secret tunnel to the beach.

[somewhat over invested in Bonsoir's childhood home.........]

Martorana you have clearly OD'd on Enid Blyton and Evelyn Waugh

Not me, nigella- but I fear others might have........

quite possibly someone has been reading 'Fantasy Island'

Oh, I don't know, Bonsoir's childhood home sounds similar to mine, although I went to a state school, where it definitely wasn't the norm. The eating your own vegetables thing was never expressed to me as a money saving device, however, more a lifestyle choice! Some people actually ENJOY growing their own vegetables. Also, second hand clothes made sense in the days when clothing was relatively far more expensive than it is, now. You no longer save large amounts of money buying your clothes second hand and you most definitely no longer save money making your own clothes - there are plenty of places selling cheap clothing these days. I wasn't aware, though, that people had stopped passing clothes on to siblings, cousins and neighbours. Clearly I'm living in a time warp. The only thing that really surprises me is Bonsoir's failure to mention a leaky roof. Surely Bonsoir's house had one or two buckets always at the ready to catch the drips when the rain got too heavy?

Bonsoir's childhood sounds very like mine. We had our vegetables from the man in the village with a market garden, I had cast off clothing from my cousins or sewn or knitted by my mother. Our holidays were largely with an aunt who lived by the sea or an aunt who had a farm. Our house was not large but it was chilly once you left the main fire. We didn't afford private education, but it was a common situation for many who did. It was why I like Enid Blyton- the lifestyle was immediately recognisable. I lived in a village and we went out after breakfast and came back for meals.

it is certainly true that middle class life was far more 'no frills' back in the 70s even if you did go to private school.

And alcohol was for special occasions and we never ate out- we wouldn't even have had a coffee out- we had picnics.

I was pre 70s. My parents had a bit more money by then.

It was a great life for children!

I was educated privately. My kids haven't been. Can't afford to and don't want to. So far I haven't really seen much difference in outcome. Db and I were both intelligent but he was unmotivated and I was hardworking. School was largely wasted on db. I did well academically. Ditto my eldest two kids. Ds1 did badly academically like his uncle and dd is flying. Db sorted himself out its-school, I see signs that ds1 will too.

Life was v different. Like Delph, we were a mixture of wealth and poverty. We had a large house, lots of valuable antiques and family silver, private ed, but no money to spare for luxuries. We grew or made everything we possibly could. Holidays were rarely abroad and my mum always drove a knackered old car. She struggled to make ends meet.

They could have transformed their lives by giving up private schooling. I found out recently that mum would have been happy to do that but it was unthinkable to my dad.

Right...and immediately with the 'inner London comp'. Sorry to bristle but that's my kids' school you're talking about

No I should be sorry, you're right, it was lazy shorthand.

I meant, badly put, that there are schools in other countries I know where the parents would kill to have the resources, teachers, facilities, that even our most challenged schools take for granted.

We tend to be very UK-centric in these discussions.

That was all, sorry for offending.

What has a 1960s mc childhood have to to with private schooling?

I had a 1970s lower mc childhood where we never went abroad had picnics rode our bikes round the council estate and ate fish and chips

So what?

What utter baloney.

Our average,state,anybody can go to community church primary school offers above and beyond what my dc's friends get at their convent private school.

Results are better too.