'State schools are creating amoral children'

[BurgenSnurgen]

...because state schools are under so much pressure to improve results that there's no time to teach them right from wrong.

So says Chairman of the Independent Schools Association

Bit speechless really. It's giving me the absolute RAGE.

How can independent schools dilute some of the pressures that teachers feel get in the way of teaching?

No NC, no SATs, longer days to include more ECs, no early sitting of GCSEs, no modules, iGCSEs, fewer GCSEs, no EBAC... etc etc

Tis up to the schools if they want to do this...

As for what would be the appropriate response for any commentator...well that depends entirely on the context.

martorana depends on the school.

The parents at both my DC's schools are interested in far more than grades. They would be very pissed off if grades came at the expense of the other shizzle they're paying for.

It's just a sales pitch. I've heard heads of lots of schools do them. My School Is Better Than Anyone Else's School Because...fill in as appropriate. Comp heads do it too (though frankly I was particularly swayed by my own daughters' head-teacher because she advised we actually look at a wide range of schools to see which one fitted best). It smacks of desperate flailing around in a financial climate where increasing numbers of people can't afford private schools and/or don't see that they'll get value for money from a little-known minor prep.

Having said that about my daughters' head, I probably would listen to her wider pronouncements because she's actually worked in education beyond immediate service delivery.

Word- the difference is that he has a ready made audience and a position which gives weight to what he says. And which feeds the fear of the unknown.

mother yes fees have been hiked quite out of kilter with wages. Many who would like to send their children to independent school, simply cannot afford it.

This may to some extent account for the increase in pressure for places in grammars, faith schools and free schools.

martorana sometimes we get a platform to speak our mind. I'm sure if you did, you would take it too.

TheWordFactory - I very often share your position on private schools and I do believe that UK private schools are generally well placed to offer a deeper, broader and more tailored education to their pupils than state schools. A great deal of data backs this up.

For anyone to claim they deliver a more moral education is a very subjective proposition indeed. There is undoubtedly a section of the population which finds its own values better reflected in private education than in state. Those values often encompass a great deal of entitlement and inherent superiority. Morally better? I think this is extremely dangerous ground.

"martorana sometimes we get a platform to speak our mind. I'm sure if you did, you would take it too."

I hope that if that platform was a professional one I would speak responsibly.

Bonsoir I think the idea of why parents pay for private school is an interesting one.

There are one or two posters on MN who proffess to know exactly why people pay. Apparently, they can read minds, thousands of them at any one time .

But, actually, I think the drivers are very varied.

Walden (is that his name?) has tried to identify one of those potential drivers, and IMVHO got it wrong.

Had he said, state schools are being relentlessy squeezed by grade pressure and governemnt interference, so choose our independent schools for a broad education yadda yadda...then I think it woul dhave been a solid argument.

Though, it would still have stirred up the usual suspects....

That said, I think trying to sum up The One Main Reason why parents do and should choose independent education is a fools game. It's just not that simple!

The quality of overall education does seem fairer and more level in non grammar school areas though. Incidentally, my mum lives in an ex mining community and the local mixed comp gets great results and the school my nephew attended (and a lot of my family) is in the top so many of the times good school guide.

I am happy and have always been happy with my children's schooling. The three between them have been to eight different state school, three of which have been special schools (one pd, two sld/pmld) and apart from concerns about the one special school, all have been very good and offer a good range of subjects and extra curricular. The current special school my daughter attends is falling to pieces, the surroundings are dire tbqh. It need redecoration, better facilities etc. But the level of care and therapeutic input under a driven, dedicated head and committed staff is beyond amazing. I will be sad when she has to leave.

martorana
I think it depends what one means by responsible.

Sometimes what we say, won't be popular. Sometimes it might put the cat amongst the pigeons. But providing one isn't simply mischief making, then one is entitled to say what one thinks.

I'm asked to pontificate about all sorts of shite. I try to honest and entertaining. I don't see it as my duty to foster world peace and harmony .

As for Walden, I don't think what he said was earth shattering. Not really.

I do recognise this though:

Walden's assertion that too many staff in the state sector, living in "a climate of fear", are unable to provide children with an enriching education…

That climate of fear, whatever it stems from, does get in the way.

pip I'm sure it does. And this situation is not of their making.

The recent thread about the prevelance of cheating in MFL exams was . But that's what happens when teachers are under too much pressure!

Many who would like to send their children to independent school, simply cannot afford it.

But surely that's always been the case? Or is it a problem now because that group is starting to include people who think their children ought to be able to go to private school?

Amber I think there are definitely people in that category.

They think their class and job ought to provide them enough for private education. In the past it would have done. But that's no longer the case.

unless you are over here on secondment from the states doing the same job as your uk counterparts, your salary and expenses pay enough to facilitate it. Surely there is a high proportion of overseas students at private schools anyway (if the ones by me are anything to go by) ? Is the 7% statistic just based on British students?

Not that there is anything wrong with overseas students being here. I don't think I made that clear

I think some boarding schools are reliant on a steady stream of foreign students...but not most day schools (which is what most private schools are).

Though of course there are foreign families who move here, precisely for our education system (both private and state). DS school has a share of Americans/Russians/Chinese/Africans whose families have got themselves transfered to London so they can access the world renowned school for their kids.

The reality is that a generation ago, a family with a parent in a traditional middle class profession could afford many things that they no longer can; private school, a SAHP, a lovely home in an area of their choosing...nowadays, not so much.

I know, I agree with you and I think it's mainly down to the cost of housing in proportion to wages

Hello, I have wondered the same question as Amber is asking.
Are there people who had a private education themselves unable to provide the same for their dc?
Or are people who would never have been able to afford it complaining that it is unfair on them?
I also think that many mc parents used to scrimp to provide private education and go without any other luxuries. Maybe some of these people today wouldn't want to do this and still expect to be able to afford the fees?

No, morethan. It is people who are politically and psychologically opposed to private education. I find it particularly infuriating when people don't believe this and think it's all about the politics of envy. It make me want to scream!

"I also think that many mc parents used to scrimp to provide private education and go without any other luxuries."

This is definitely true - it describes my childhood and the childhood of most the DC I went to school with. We all wore second-hand clothes almost all the time (school second-hand uniform shop and hand-me-downs from cousins), went on a paid-for holiday once a year (though stayed with grandparents by the sea etc at other times), ate fruit and vegetables from the garden (or the neighbours' garden) and our parents only drank alcohol at Christmas (though they might have smoked quite a bit). We lived in large, rattling, slightly chilly houses with huge rather unkempt gardens and went to small prep schools that were very strict! Life was different!

Time for a little post about the nouveau pauvre, surely?

bonsoir the thing is those cost cutting exercises wouldn't skim the surface now, would they? Thirty or forty grand a year, net, for two kids, is big bucks. Especially with house prices as they are (bonkers in the SE).

"Are they people who had private education themselves unable to provide the same for their DC's"
Win Coll stated in a recent annual report that it's increasing it's bursary fund for this reason, many old Wykamists can't afford the fees. I was listening to a head of another well know boarding school at a recent talk, he was saying that their fees are no longer within the reach of your average small country town solicitor/country GP, they were traditionally sent to boarding schools and now can't afford to send their own children.
My DS and SIL whose parents were teachers, one fairly senior but retired over 20 years ago so probably not on great money, sent two to independent schools my DH to one of London's top independent day school current fees are now £7300 + a term (they were £1000) when he left in 1984 and SIL to a very well regarded school at £5k+ per term that now way outside the reach of a couple of teachers.

And as for house prices, they as two newly qualified teachers paid £900 for their house on the edge of London in a pleasant leafy suburb in the late 50's now worth nearly a million.