'State schools are creating amoral children'

[BurgenSnurgen]

...because state schools are under so much pressure to improve results that there's no time to teach them right from wrong.

So says Chairman of the Independent Schools Association

Bit speechless really. It's giving me the absolute RAGE.

No, he said that to state school teachers:

the only results that matter are those which have created added value in terms of raising a pupil's statistical level more than the norm from one age group or stage to the next
and that state school parents are also to blame for buying into this ethos. Hence the lack of 'moral compass' which he bemoans.

By contrast, he argues, private schools:

with their respect for discipline and academic seriousness, sport and culture, citizenship and community, service, environmental awareness, spiritual life and personal responsibility, sends out into the world young people with emotional intelligence, developed moral understanding and a willingness to make a contribution to society

I don't think that's really the same as saying that teachers are under pressure, and nor do I think the word 'unassuming' applies to (or near) a man who is making such bizarre claims about state vs private. I'm busy wondering what the fuck he thinks he knows about it, or why he thinks he qualified to comment, to be honest. I think he may just be being deliberately inflammatory: I can't see any other reason to come out with such half-baked, half-witted nonsense.

I went to a very tough secondary school ( which got me 3 A grades at A level and RG Uni thankyou teachers you are amazing) and I met people who were violent cruel hedonistic. Some are now in prison for murder.

Some people are just like that.

I tell you what NIT he is probably trying to drum up business for his little third rate prep school.

It's a simple scare mongering marketing exercise.

He isn't saying anything that you can't read on Mnmsnet or hear in a wine bar any day of the week.

Nigellas I think you're probably right!

I can imagine this guy with two piles of notes, and two ideas for some vague notions he could build into two possible specious-but-convincing speeches with the Torygraph would lap up:

Speech 1: State schools, with their never-ending touchy-feely emphasis on caring and sharing, SEAL, circle time, Young Leaders Awards, community service, PSHE and so on, are failing to provide young people with the skills needed for simple hard graft, exam passing, pushing themselves to their academic limits, and an understanding of the need to be well-qualified in a competitive world. The private sector, by contrast, is determinedly focussed on ensuring that each child achieves the results of which they are capable, and leaves the airy-fairy emotion, helping others, and community shit to the hours outside school.

Speech 2: State schools, with their never-ending focus on results and league tables, are churning out children with good results but no moral compass etc etc...

Both equally meretricious and equally plausible-sounding... eeny meeny....

*TheWordFactory - "mumtrying have you read the rest of happy post?

It was about a black person commneting on the black community ... so of course it was relevant."*

Er no, it was a black person commenting on both black and white communities:

"there are nasty black people out there but the vast majority are hard working decent citizens, there are also nasty white people out there but the majority are hard working decent citizens, but we tend to hear about and remember the nasty one and assume that thus applied to all".

Thanks HG, this does put the quote from her into context and very much explains the relevance :-)

I didn’t initially see the relevance and if you see TheWordFactory response, it looks like they didn’t either.

He isn't saying anything that you can't read on MN or hear in a wine bar anydsy of the week- but it doesn't make him right. If I believed life was like it is portrayed on MN I would want to emigrate! I do however realise that we hear more from those not happy.

Delphiniumsblue I" do however realise that we hear more from those not happy".

I think we hear just as much from those defending the way things are to those who are not happy.

I agree, delphiniums- he is just adding to the sum of middle class angst and fear of the unknown.

We are also hearing from those who are not happy - quite explicitly in some cases as in 'my experience was crap- therefore all state education is crap'.
He is just doing as the Daily Mail does on a regular basis.

I tell you, he's going down the Fine Upstanding Chaps line. Moral fibre. Stuff that built the Empah. Oompah oompah twirl moustache and down with all this book-learnin' tosh.

Nah mother he's just tapping into the current concerns about education.

And there are concerns. People can be as defensive as they like, but faith in the comprehensive system is diminishing, hence the numbers of people trying to get places in grammars, faith schools, free schools and independents.

And this isn't just middle class angst. Many working class families are equally concerned. My Mum lives in a dyed in the wool, working class, ex mining area and the schools issue is a hot topic. The faith schools are bursting at the seams and parents are looking to free schools...

I've heard a lot of concerns about schools, but this moral compass business has not been one of them - I don't think he's 'tapping in' to anything that's a particularly frequently expressed anxiety.

If faith in the comprehensive system (or rather, in comprehensive schools, since we don't and never have had a comprehensive system) is low, I struggle to see how this minor prep head thinks he's helping with that in this speech.

If state schools don't get the results, they get brow-beaten - if they do, they're obviously doing it at the expense of any moral compass for their pupils. Bonkers.

nit his speech (did he actually give it BTW?) covers more than the moral compass malarkey, but FWIW, I agree, that I can't see many parents turning to the independent system out of a heartfelt desire to procure a moral compass for their DC.

Most parents, however their wallets sit, provide their DC with a perfectly decent set of values. Just as it should be.

And yes, he's not helping teachers who find themselves under grade pressure by mentioning it, but, frankly, that's not his job. He's pointing out a fairly universally accepted piece of information and ssaying that there is an alternative. That's what his job is.

I am struck by this idea of a Moral Compass. Presumably it draws a Perfect Circle, as opposed to an immoral one?

I think it's a speech to be delivered next week, isn't it?

What do you mean about the 'universally accepted piece of information' - grade pressure? And what alternative do you see him suggesting?

And no, word, you're right - it's not his job, and he's not qualified to do it. His job is to educate the children at his prep school, and he should stfu and do that, I feel.

That's what his job is
no his job is to get more customers for his little school that nobody has ever heard of

Yes nit grade pressure. The relentless focus on league tables and value added scores etc has put teachers in an intolerable position.

Over the years, they've been forced to adopt any and every method to ensure those 5GCSEs come through. Many of these methods are highly dubious (one could say immoral) but really they've been backed into a corner that is not of their making.

Independent schools can offer some dilution of these pressures (if they choose to). Parents may or may not want to pay for that.

But nit why should he STFU?

Is no one allowed to have a say except the ahllowed few who are all singing from the saem hymn sheet.

He's an educationalist, a teacher, a parent, a citizen. What more qualifications does he need?

Do you have any? Does that stop you saying your piece? Errrr....hardly!

An dif anyone would listen to you in RL, you'd say your piece too .

Right, but surely the appropriate response would be to attack successive governments for that relentless focus, rather than suggest it's somehting schools do because they want to, and frame the argument in terms of this 'whole child' business.

How do you mean, 'offer some dilution'? You can't be saying the bigalternative answer to all this relentless focus etc etc is 'send more children to private school', can you? And you surely can't be saying that it's a questions of parents possibly wanting to pay or possibly not?

I can see why the head of a prep school might conveniently suggest that as a solution, but not why you would think it's an answer? Reminds me of my grandad always telling us 'the body is a machine that runs on sugar' to justify liberal additions of such to all food.... and it transpired that the quotation came from the head of Tate and Lyle!

Because he's the kind of 'educationalist' who's seen fit to bestow his immense wisdom only on a very small section of society, and whilst he might be qualified to pronounce on, I dunno, effective ways to arrange seating in a classroom, I don't see why he's qualified to make sweeping statements about What State Schools Are All Like.

If I were writing a speech on education, I wouldn't frame it in terms like 'private schools churn out arrogant, entitled individuals who have no moral compass because they've been told at a young age that they are better than 93% of their peers', for example.

Interesting this grade pressure thing. I can't see many private school parents being happy with less than stellar grades because the school was concentrating on building moral compasses............