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Secondary education

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Original poster

Saturday detention and inflexible school.

216 replies

Rainbow · 11/10/2013 16:28

My DS2 is in Y8 and the school policy is, if they get 5 detentions for not doing homework, they get a Saturday detention. I don't agree with it but it is school policy and I agreed to work with the school for the duration of my child's time with them. DS2 got his 5 detentions and was told on Wednesday(2/10), that he had detention on the Saturday (5/10). As a Cub Scout Leader, I had made arrangements to go to District camp with all the beavers, cubs and scouts from our district. DS1 is a beaver leader DS2 and DS3 are scouts, DS4 is too young but had not choice and my parents and my sis are also leaders with beavers and scouts and so they came too. There was not at home who could look after DS2. I explained to the school that this was the case and after numerous suggestions along the lines of put him on 3 trains and a bus (total journey time 2 hrs 40 mins) it was agreed to postpone the detention to the following week. I got on the coach with all the other leaders and children on the Friday and returned by coach on the Sunday. I then discovered, that DS2's detention had been extended by 1 hour because he could not make the previous Saturday. School seems to be steadfast in their decision and insist on punishing DS2 for my commitment. He did get a couple of Saturday detentions last ear and one was changed as my cousin was getting married but the other 2 we bend over backwards to get him there, even picking up my cubs and taking them to their event before collecting DS2 from camp only to find that the member of staff who was taking the detention had not turned up! Working together is a 2 way street or at least I thought it was!

OP posts:
Cynderella · 11/10/2013 23:33

Some KS3 pupils need help organising their homework, especially if they've not had much in primary school. Most teachers understand this. When I have a Y7 tutor group, I write notes in planners and liaise with teachers if there are problems.

In the case of the OP, it seems that the child is choosing not to do homework because it's 'boring' and the parents are letting it go. Some parents would see that as wrong and think that the parents should ensure homework is done (I am one of those parents). Some think the child will learn the hard way. This one isn't learning because he is getting one message from school (do your homework) and another from home (Oh, you haven't done your homework. Never mind, go to Scouts). If he had to do his homework before going on the computer or going to Scouts, I suspect the OP would have an easier time and not be arguing with the school.

Detentions are also a deterrent to others - if children see others getting away with breaking the rules, more will try it. As teachers, we are berated by the leadership team when parents complain about too little homework being set. We all need to do as we're told here or find different schools that suit our feelings about homework. And, yes, homework may not get you a good job, but a good work ethic may help you to keep one.

notagiraffe · 11/10/2013 23:37

Wow. It sounds like all the adults in this scenario are putting their energies into being right, not solving the problem. Your DC has a problem with homework and he is still quite young. he needs help. No point in people saying 'He shouldn't'. He does. No shame in needing help at times. Don't we all.

Ditch the feud with the school. FWIW, I think their inflexibility isn't helping. As pastoral carers themselves, they must see that you can't renege on your responsibility to your scout troupe and that their suggestions of public transport aren't a viable solution.But he has to do the detention, because he knew the score. And he has to do the extra hour in recognition of how his behaviour is disrupting so many lives, not just his own.

That aside, I think you need to help him set up structures for his homework. If you get heavily involved for a couple of weeks, that's probably all he needs to get him on the right road.
Sort him out with a regular time and place. Somewhere quiet.
Sit with him, get his homework diary out and go through it.
Ask what's needed in by tomorrow, and what is for later in the week. Suggest he prioritises stuff due in sooner, and get him to choose which piece to do.
Compliment him every time he makes a right decision.
Ask which pieces he understands best and see if he can quickly cross off a couple.
If he has vocab, test him on it.
If he has online research, set a timer for him to print out a few sheets and work on them, so he doesn't spend an hour on you tube instead not that my DC have ever done such a thing
If he doesn't understand something, get him to text a friend and see if they can advise.
If he has an essay, ask him to tell you a bit about what he knows about the subject already and then suggest he starts making notes on what he's told you.
Can DS1 help at all - with maths or vocab testing?

Can you agree a reward he gets afterwards for each piece completed? My DC get to watch programmes they're not usually allowed. The argument is that if they are mature enough to do such good homework, on time and without fuss, then they're mature enough to watch Bad Education or something similar.

Do you show interest in pieces he's done? I nab DC's books sometimes to see what score they got for essays I think they did well, or for maths they tore their hair out over, and discuss it with them. That's always a good time to sneak in a 'See - when you work hard you get good results' or a 'stick at it and your grade will improve.'
DS1 went from bottom of class 4/20 in one test to full marks in a couple of weeks because once the tantrums were over 'wish I'd never chosen this subject' he got on with it. But he needed help.

SirChenjin · 11/10/2013 23:38

Yes they do - but you are making massive assumptions about what the school does and doesn't do for its pupils.

The fact is that the OPs son has consistently failed to hand in homework. Other children are manage. It's not up to the school to make exceptions for one child, it's up to the child to hand in his/her homework. If you think Saturday detention is 'a joke' and wouldn't follow the school rules then hopefully you wouldn't impose yourself or your child on that particular school and would send your child to another school.

curlew · 11/10/2013 23:39

My children keep a rolling list of homework pinned on the kitchen notice board with when it's due and roughly how long they think it'll take. It's incredibly helpful because I can keep an subtle eye without interfering, and they can see at a glance if the work is piling up.

Thants · 11/10/2013 23:49

Is it private school?

englishteacher78 · 12/10/2013 05:47

Rewards for work done well, project work and all that someone up thread suggested are already done in schools. There needs to be consequences for not doing your work.
I would have thought public transport was an option, but then I work in a school that many of our students travel a long way for - on public transport. It's one of the reasons my form room is open for them at lunch time if they want to get on with some work.
Many year 7 and 8s do need help with organisation. It's different to primary school where they stay in the same place with the same teacher.

soul2000 · 12/10/2013 13:19

Talking about organisation. My cousins DD yr 12 doing 4 As levels in
Maths Chemistry French English, she got 7 As and 3 Bs at Gcse. Her organisation skills are awful, she is 17 and she needs constant help from her mother on organisation skills. She never knows which homework is due
or what homework has been set.

Her mother is constantly pulling her hair out trying to get her DD to organize herself.

Some people no matter how bright they are or how old they are are just
crap at organisation and therefore need help.

jensun · 12/10/2013 16:58

What school does your sont go to? I like their disciplined and fair approach, perhaps I will send my son there when he is old enough.

Thants · 12/10/2013 17:16

Englishteacher. Ime schools don't use the techniques I suggested to encourage kids to do homework.
Yes consequences for bad behaviour are sometime necessary but they don't need to be on a weekend. There is no reason for that.

ReallyTired · 12/10/2013 17:22

"Maths Chemistry French English, she got 7 As and 3 Bs at Gcse. Her organisation skills are awful, she is 17 and she needs constant help from her mother on organisation skills. She never knows which homework is due
or what homework has been set.

Her mother is constantly pulling her hair out trying to get her DD to organize herself."

Prehpas mummy has to stand back and let her daughter fail. Otherwise what will happen when this girl gets to uni.

soul2000 · 12/10/2013 17:53

You are right Really Tired. Her mother has a wall chart in the kitchen with
DDs lessons on it as well her homework and what day each homework is due. She has been doing this since her DD was Yr 7 and her DD missed doing her homework a few times ending up having a few detentions.

On occasions her DD has told me she ended up doing her homework on the school bus in 30 minutes because she had forgotten which lessons she had that day.

The school is a girls grammar school and they are constantly telling her to get organized and wake up, her form tutor yes Even in Yr 12 is always reminding her to write down her homework required for the next day.

SoupDragon · 12/10/2013 18:00

Rainbow - what sanctions do you have in place for missed homework? (I may have missed this somewhere in the thread)

Shootingatpigeons · 12/10/2013 18:11

soul2000 my DD is dyslexic and dyspraxic and finds it very hard to organise herself. So she has to work harder and smarter to do so. I could do it for her but then she would not learn how to cope with her weakness. She goes to uni next year, I won't be there to do it for her. So I have to stay on her case, facilitate her with coping mechanisms, but also not let up. Lack of organisational skills isn't an excuse, it's a challenge they have to overcome.

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud · 12/10/2013 18:17

As the boy is a keen Scout, I'd go with the line that one way of keeping the Promise to do his best would be to get organised and get rhs homework done on time.

Original poster
Rainbow · 13/10/2013 13:31

Soul2000- No it is not a selective school. He has a planner/diary to write down all the homework but he writes things like complete worksheet 7. I see a completed worksheet, that is correct as far as I know, and sign it off but he still seems to get the detention for incomplete homework. He also gets detention for having an empty water bottle, a ruler that is too short, and unsharpened pencils.

SirChenJin - 15 sounds a lot but it is just under 4 days worth of homework missed in a whole year. It is possible to earn more saturday detentions than there are Saturdays in the school year. (approx 3 every 2 weeks)

Sirzy - I help him as much as I can but I am limited with the time I have available (when I am not working, cooking, bathing or putting to bed DS4) and the time he is given to complete the tasks (sometimes overnight)

Cynderella - They are allowed to go to the library whenever they wish but there is no help available.

The main thing that is annoying me about all this is that no-one seems to address the real problem. He has been given a Saturday detention for 5 incomplete or missed homeworks (a detention he deserved) but because I couldn't drop everything, he was punished again form my commitment. Yet no-one is prepared to help him solve the problem, they just continue to punish him. I can help him with what I know he has, but if he has miswritten the work down or not written it down I cannot help him. His organisation needs work I know that, but the school need to support him too not punish him for my commitments.

OP posts:
RussiansOnTheSpree · 13/10/2013 13:39

There are (at least) 2 'real problems'. One of them is that your DS appears to be getting no support at school for his problem - either severe disaffection, or a SpLD. The other one is that he appears to be getting no support at home for the same. You clearly regard your 'commitment' to scouts as more important than what should be your commitment to your son. That's very sad.

Original poster
Rainbow · 13/10/2013 13:40

notagiraffe- Exactly. It's not a feud with the school as such. You're right it is more about them being right than helping DS2. I went in last year, every morning, with his planner and the "completed homework" to prove that he had done it and his deputy head checked off the work with the planner but he still, once he handed it in" got a detention. The main problem seemed to be that the h/w he had written down was wrong or incomplete, but still not checked his planner at the end of the lesson. "we do not have time to check 30 planners" My argument was then, that 30 planners didn't need checking, just those that regularly failed on the h/w front ie DS2. Maybe 5 would need checking for a few weeks until they got used to the major jump from primary, but no, and it is still a problem in y8.

OP posts:
Sirzy · 13/10/2013 13:42

I am assuming other parents are managing to ensure their children do homework given with the same timescale? So you can't really blame that.

If he can't write it down properly why not ask him to ask the teachers to write it into his book? Or you contact the school for that to happen?

Original poster
Rainbow · 13/10/2013 13:43

No Russian, he gets as much help at home as I can give him. but if he has nothing written in his planner, than I have nothing to help him with. My commitment to Scouting is not more important than my sons but it is a commitment that I cannot break at a moments notice. This weekend had been planned for 2 years and I could not let 148 children (including 3 of my sons) down. It is the only weekend ( once every two years) that cannot be rearranged or worked around as I have done in the past.

OP posts:
curlew · 13/10/2013 13:44

How does he get to school during the week? If my year 8 had a Saturday detention, I would expect him to get himself there and back.

Original poster
Rainbow · 13/10/2013 13:44

I have Sirzy, "we do not have time" is their answer every time. DS2 is one of at least 5 children in his class I that I know of who are struggling.

OP posts:
Original poster
Rainbow · 13/10/2013 13:45

He takes himself Curlew. I take him to Saturday detention (to make sure he gets there!) but he comes home on his own

OP posts:
Original poster
Rainbow · 13/10/2013 13:49

SoupDragon - he has lost computer, DS and tV time, been grounded, lost Pocket money, made to do extra chores after H/W but, as yet nothing is working.

OP posts:
LIZS · 13/10/2013 13:50

Does he recognise there is a problem ?

SirChenjin · 13/10/2013 14:03

SirChenJin - 15 sounds a lot but it is just under 4 days worth of homework missed in a whole year. It is possible to earn more saturday detentions than there are Saturdays in the school year. (approx 3 every 2 weeks)

It sounds a lot - because it is a lot! In fact, it's a huge amount of missed homework! It sounds like you're doing a lot to address this, but you say that no-one is addressing the issue. So - what exactly do you want him (and the school) to do to address the issue?

Btw - I totally agree with you re your Scouting commitments. You couldn't have let everyone down, definitely not. It is time to take a back seat for the next year until you get on top of this though?