Is this a reasonable question to ask a Secondary school, and should they be able to give me an answer reasonably quickly?

[seeker]

We like in an all selective area, and 23% of children go to grammar schools.

Would it be reasonable for me to ask the High School what % of their cohort are likely to start year 7 with level 5 SATS?

Amaretti We put our first child through 11+ but did not accept place and sent her to secondary as better facilities etc and never looked back with her second we did not engage with it and subsequent children will do likewise. All are bright and doing incredibly well and we are not bonkers and Seeker why would ind school make the quality of his school life better ?? in what way exactly

'if you have parents who are very supportive and have the financial wherewithal and the time to support their children, they will succeed wherever they go to school'

Yes but they do still have to go to school and they might as well enjoy it while they are there. A clever DC who feels that they have to hide their light under a bushel can't be having that much fun IMVHO.

imnotmymum - Seeker didn't say that independent school would make the quality of school life better - quite the opposite in fact.

Pickled - I work in a 'challenging' school but I don't think there are many who feel they have to hide their light under a bushel. Quite the opposite in fact. They get a lot of respect from their peers. If my DS (only 6mo so I'm not worried yet!) turns out to be gifted, I'll be very happy for him to go to whichever school is closest to us. It's if he's at the other end of the spectrum I'll be much more worried. IME it's the less academically bright who struggle with secondary schoool.

"A clever DC who feels that they have to hide their light under a bushel can't be having that much fun IMVHO."

Another of the Great Myths.

It is cool to be clever in some schools/peer groups within schools. This is not a private/state thing.

Not a myth but based on what friends who have had that experience have said to me.

Up until this year I was seriously considering sending my DD to our local v. well respected comp but having worked there recently there is no way that she'll be going. What was really worring was how quickly I began to 'normalise' certain behaviours - I am sure that that is what has to happen to survive succeed there. It felt 'toxic' to me and the number of parents and DC that are more than happy with the 'provision' makes me fear for all of our futures.

well whoever said it originally .. same applies
And again reiterate pickledsiblings have faith in your child just because some children are "moulded" does not mean yours will

I think it is a myth that a clever child has to hide that fact. It is very cool to be clever, and very cool to be a geek.

I am sure my DD would be absolutely 'fine', I just wouldn't subject her to it if I didn't have to.

Oh heaven forbid your dd should be "subjected" to the type of secondary education that 90% of the population has to endure!

subject her to what exactly OMG you going to sensor her experiences forever I know that when I was younger I got up to allsorts behind my parents back through the influence of nobody else and oh I went to all girls Grammar school.

The difference between us, pickledsiblings, is that I don't think the fact that my godson is currently being bullied at a top London prep, my brother was miserably unhappy at a top public school, and my ds's friend is pretending to be thick at a little local independent means that that is the universal expericnce of private education. For private school parents it seems, bizarrely, that a couple of bad experiences at a state school means all state schools are like that, but a couple of bad experiences a priave school just underlines how much worse it would be at state school!

seeker - "It is cool to be clever in some schools/peer groups within schools. This is not a private/state thing."

..couldn't agree more. That culture is the #1 thing I am looking for in a secondary school for DS. It is there in some state schools, and some independent schools, but not all in either sector.

ha spot on seeker if the private bad ooh how terrible for the peasants

I don't want to put words into pickledsiblings mouth but it seemed to me that she wasn't saying she wouldn't subject her DC to the entire state sector.
She was saying she wouldn't subject her DC to a school she felt was fundementally flawed (which is kinda what this thread is about no? Seeker is saying she has huge reservations about how appropriate this high school is for her child).

If seeker is saying that this school is not appropraite for her son, that she has the money to pay for a school that is, but won't, then I respect her for that decision, but it musn't come as any huge shock that other parents would feel and act differently.

Seeker, you are missing the point. As I have stated above, the school of which I am speaking has a great reputation and many happy students and parents - IMO they are all seriously deluded and/or have normalised certain behaviours that I just don't want my DC to share a space with.

The bad experiences that you have outlined Seeker are not the preserve of any sector, you are totally right there. That's not it. It is about more than individuals it is about what you get when a critical mass of students just don't give a damn.

To be clear- I don't have HUGE reservations about my son's prospective school- I have some reservations.

Pickledsiblings- you've sort of killed the debate there. If you say a school has great reputation and happy kids and parents but they are only happy because they are deluding themselves there's not really anywhere else to go!

Fair enough, but you have said before that this school is not where you wanted your DS to go (obvious since he sat the 11+ elsewhere). You have said it is not apporpriate for your DS. You are going to the trouble of appealing.

Obviously you're fairly worried. You've said so. And I think that's perfectly understandable.

For me, there is no debate (based on my insight) and for you Seeker there are only principles...based on what?

Pickledsiblings- you are dismissing other people's experience as delusion!

Ignorance is bliss and all that Seeker (for them I mean).

I guess not everyone has such high standards and expectations (and I am not taliking about number of A*s) as I do. Except I am sure there are plenty of parents that do and that they would be 'horrified' if they new what it is really like 'within these walls'.

pickledsiblings - would you care to give an example of the behaviour you think has been "normalised" - I am intruiged as to what horrifies you so much?

Ah. Once you start talking about people with high expectations and standards being the ones who "choose" private education, I'm outta here!

seeker - my DC are in independent schools and I am with you on that being laughable.

Did you miss the bit where I said 'except I am sure there are plenty of parents that do' - meaning parents that have chosen the State sector?

stealthsquiggle - girls eating their lunch in the loos as no decent canteen facilities for those with packed lunch, kids turning up to lessons with no pens/books and leaving the room in a mess, an expectation of being able to eat and drink in class, music players on in class, rude words 'in the air', toilets flooded on a daily basis, kids having smoke breaks so arriving late to lessons and staff knowing and turning a blind eye , kids given the chance to do their assessed course work again and again and again until they meet the grade...

A neighbour of mine who sends her daughter to this school actually said that she feels that she has sent her daughter to a private school . Said daughter got a really good clutch of GCSEs. She babysits for us and is a lovely girl but I have heard her empathise with my DD about the downside of being in a school where not enough kids have the 'right' attitude to learning. Some fantastic teachers/teaching at the school btw.

Oh, and I do not believe that children are ever forced to eat their lunch in the loo in ANY school of any sector!