Is this a reasonable question to ask a Secondary school, and should they be able to give me an answer reasonably quickly?

[seeker]

We like in an all selective area, and 23% of children go to grammar schools.

Would it be reasonable for me to ask the High School what % of their cohort are likely to start year 7 with level 5 SATS?

The high schools are the grammars round here as well

I thought that you'd started an appeal?

Is your ds working at comfortable level 5's, Seeker? What happened at the 11+? Was it actually too much for him, or was he just having a bad day?
He might not actually be the brightest at High School.

Oh seeker, that is a bum.

Oh I am dying please tell me the difference between High and Grammar oh I will google it and for not getting in to Grammar with recession a lot of people who would send to private cannot afford fees but can afford tonnes of tuition to get them into Grammar so theoretically not the brightest just the best trained

A high school is what they used to call a secondary modern. All of those children who didn't reach the grade for a grammar school went there. I imagine there are a fair few bright children at the school who didn't make the grade for one reason or another. Don't assume that your child will be the only one.

so there is Grammar, High then comp then! I guess there will be lots there and he have a great time as I said not level when enter how well done in end.

If you can afford it Seeker, swallow your principles and send him to one of the many excellent Kent Independents - you'll definitely get a comprehensive intake there!

Seeker it is a mare and you are not alone!

We're not a selective area but by the time you take out the DC going private, the ones going selective out of county, the ones going to faith schools and the HEers, our local comps are anyhting but. I suspect it's like this around the country. State provision is so patchy...

No imnotmymum the high is the same as a comprehensive, just without the high ability class as they will mostly be at the Grammar.

Oh Sorry to sound so thick but I was confused when she said she wished there was a comprehensive ... there has always got to be a top set though surely, he teachers at the high school must adapt to this ?? do they not ??

No, you're not thick. It's a crap system and is confusing. There's going to be a fair few in the top set at the high school/comp who didn't quite reach the mark for the Grammar so the op's son isn't going to be alone. The teachers should adapt the work for each ability group. The whole system needs an overhaul. My son was allocated a place at the local comp. Their GCSE pass rate (not A-C) was 26% last year. There isn't a grammar school here. If I'd have put a school further away (and better) then there's no guarantee that he would have got a place. He's at a private school now.

I am sure there will be others just like him there, Seeker. Are you in a super-selective area?

The high schools round here have a top stream either from the beginning of year 7 or year 8 and they push them hard. Be aware though that the school that starts the group in year 8 selects that group both on attainment and on approach ie hard working, organised, conscientious or not.

I think you are asking the wrong question seeker. What you need to know is how they will stretch a child who come in with level 5s. He won't be the only one. And you won't be the only parent miffed at missing out on grammar and asking these sorts of questions.

Ameretti that's fine so long as the high school in question has the right approach.

From what I gather of seeker's previous posts, she has littel faith that this particular high school has high expectations of its top set. For example no one is offered tripple science.

It's mad isn't it. If you are not used to it (and were not educated within such a system yourself) the 11+ system can seem to be byzantine in its complexity.

The high school equivalents in Gloucester suffer from the fact that there are 4 brilliant grammars in the city, an even more brilliant grammar in Cheltenham, a highly perfmorning catholic senior school, a few more selectives in other nearby towns and a load of privates. The worst of it is that the kids know, at aged 10, that they are classed as thick and are going to the sink schools. DD didn;t take the Gloucester 11+ so didn't have that pass/fail doom luckily, however there is a certain 'stigma' in not having gone to a grammar school.

That said, dd's school does its best, and I have never met with more dedicated teachers, I don't regard it as a bad school per se - GCSE results A-C including english and maths is 68% iirc. But it is not a perfect education for those who are very bright. And there is a distinct lack of competition for thise who are bright because the vast majortiy are at other schools.

I hope your appeal is successful seeker if you are appealling.

I don't think for a minute he will be the brightest there! But he will, more or less by definition, be in a pretty small group of children at the same academic level. And for lots of reasons I would rather that wasn't the case.

Yes, we are appealing, but very few appeals for non qualification get through, so it's very unlikely to be successful.

Yes, he's been working comfortably at level 5 since year 5. No idea what happened on the day- just "one of those thing"!

Yes it is stuff like provision for triple science etc which is impiortant.

Luckily dd is doing triple science (not seperate sciences though) as they pickedt he more able of the top science set to do triple. However, it doesn't have any extra timetabling - the kids who are taking triple are doing so in the same lessons as those taking double. Plus taking double in itself is an option - not compulsory. So one of dd's option blocks was taken up with choosing science. Which is not ideal is it.

Apols for appalling typing as per usual.

No, I think the high school is excellent. And they are moving towards triple science, so with a bit of luck, ds will get to do it.

It's just harder to do well when you are not surrounded by a lot of people working at the same level as you.

seeker
Whereabouts in Kent are you? Could he go private on a scholarship or something?

yes it is, will there not be enough at the same level to make a set?

I am glad that you rate the school - I too think dd's school is brilliant, cannot fault the dedication and skill of teaching and pastoral staff. Amd after dd was bullied at her highly desirable previous school, I am never going to say bad things about a school who took her in (when she was a nervous wreck), cared for her brilliantly and where there is a genuine and strict zero tolerance approach to bullying.

But that said it is not perfect when you know that your child would do so much better academically if they were amongst a load of other children who had high academic skills. I think if dd went to one of the grammars her predicted GCSEs would be better than they are now. But - dd is very happy at her current school, and she was utterly distraught at her previous one.

I don't think you need to have everyone in the school working at the same level as you to be honest. More a critical mass IYSWIM. Enough to make a peer group.

DD chose to attend a much less selective school than I was happy with and I had massive reservations. But it's been so successful, in part because there are enough very bright girls to make a decent sized top two sets.

This is why my gut instinct is to feel slightly uncomfortable at the concept of grammar schools.