Is this a reasonable question to ask a Secondary school, and should they be able to give me an answer reasonably quickly?

[seeker]

We like in an all selective area, and 23% of children go to grammar schools.

Would it be reasonable for me to ask the High School what % of their cohort are likely to start year 7 with level 5 SATS?

wordfactory you seem to be saying that the only people who are qualified to comment on comprehensives are those whose local schools are bad, and the people whose local schools are good should shut up because they ought to realise they're not typical? You don't mean that surely?

Not at all!

If you've got a great school, then that is somehting worthy of note. And certainly somehting to appreciate. Absolutely.
I love my DC;s chools. Completely love them. But I do think it behoves those of us that do to accept it's a lucky thing to have and not somehting to pat yourself on the back about. Be that because you are rich enough to pay, or you believe in X religion, or your DC passed an exam on a given day, or even, that you happen to live in a good catchment.

I suppose my view is coloured by my own experience at school, the school where I volunteered for a few years, and the school I'm now a governor at. None of these school frankly have much to celebrate so I get very defensive for the DC in those schools when I hear people crowing about their own state schools as if they were all the same.

theoriginal I've never heard anyone say state schools don't do academic GCSEs as a blanket statement.

But the sad fact is that some schools simply don't put enough focus on them. Pace seeker's high school which doesn't offer triple science. So while of course it's great that your DC's school does, it doesn't help seeker's son if he wants to be a doctor does it?

This sort of patchy provision should not defended imho.

I'd be very surprised if you didn't know the kind of post to which I'm referring, though.

And yes, I absolutely agree that the 11+ makes state provision unfair - but that's not the same as 'patchy provision' in the sense that some schools simply can't be arsed.

In terms of this - Be that because you are rich enough to pay, or you believe in X religion, or your DC passed an exam on a given day, or even, that you happen to live in a good catchment. - I don't get why you think it's all about 'patting yourself on the back' anyway - most people, as I say, send to the school near them whatever it is like, and I think actually that more people are 'lucky' than you'd think - not in terms of going to ofsted 'outstandings' but because, IMO, there are a lot of very dedicated and excellent teachers in state schools.

There seems to be a sense that you would only ever be pleased with your child's school if you'd faked religion, or lived in an amazing catchment or whatever, and it's simply not so. Therefore, I would say again - there are things about my daughter's comprehensive I'm less keen on, and things I'd change, but she goes there because that was our only option, as is the case for most people - notwithstanding the fact that I'm very much pro-state education, and the more so the longer she is there - but I also think it's only right to counter some of the more irritating of the myths about state ed when they come up, and to laud the schools', and the system's, better aspects.

Wordfactory - I am quite defensive on behalf of state education because a) I don't feel especially well served by my own private school education in a highly sought after selective academic school b) our local comp IS a good comp, AND is in an area frequently referred to as undesirable and full of categories of kids that many MN-ers seem to move hell, high water and across the county to get away from...leading to c) in reaction to the numerous MN threads assuming, with blanket generalisation, that the state sector is at best, a risk, will ALWAYS need supplementing with tutors (however good the school or chid) and should be viewed with suspicion, despair or contempt.

But where a state school is not serving it's students well it should definitely not be celebrated nor left to carry on in it's failure.

seeker I know you are staunchly against private education.

Has your appeal been turned down? Would you private ed now, given the circumstances you and your DS find yourself in?

I'm just curious and you certainly don't have to answer, but I've read a great number of threads on here from people who find themselves in a situation where they feel the only option they have for their DC is independent, even though morally they disagree with the principle of it.

No, our appeal hasn't been turned down yet, but we are pretty certain it will be.

No, there are no circumstances in which we would use private education. My children are absurdly privileged- ds will do well, with us behind him, wherever he goes!

Does your DS mind seeker? Or is he happy with the high school?

I teach in a school with a lower than average intake. We are properly comprehensive in that there are no grammars, but our ability range is very skewed. However, we do have some students who are very able, and actually they do very well indeed. We love them for a start , and work v hard indeed with them. We set, and our top sets I think rival any. It's just that we only have the one! What you want to know is the point scores of, say, the top 10 students in year 11 last year.

He's a bit torn. He wants everything to be settled, so he would prefer us not to appeal. Loads of his friends are going to the high school. However, his inner circle are all going to the grammar school, so he wants to go with them. He also is canny enough to know that, academically, be belongs with the grammar school rather than the High school group. But the High school regularly beats the grammar at football- which is a big consideration for him!
it is hard for him- such a shame it's such a drawn out process.

I think I read up the thread seeker that there are 10 or 11 other children who will be entering on Level 5+?

At least you can assure yourself he will definitely be with them in his sets, and as the school is probably very keen to show good GCSE's results, will focus on making sure these capable children do attain all they are capable of.

We don't agree on much, but I am sorry for the situation you find yourself in - the downside of the Grammar school system.

Thank you diabolo!
The big problem with the grammar school system is that the fantastic opportunity for 23% of children is at the expense of the other 77%- which just can't be right.

pm'd you seeker

A good footie team counts for a lot seeker .

How sounds like he'll make the best of it wherever he goes. Good lad.

I too am sorry he's in this position. It's not right.

I hope it works out well for him seeker. I suspect if he gels well with even just 2 or 3 like-minded individuals that it will. It sounds as though he knows he should be at/near the top of his allocated school and will not gravitate to the mean. Mixed ability teaching really can work well if the children do want to learn and it's probably not going to be truly mixed - he's likely to be near the top of a group that just missed grammar (including some late developers who may not have done so well as your son at SATs but have yet to flourish) which is potentially a very good place to be really depending on what the others are like. Like you I dislike selecting children at 11, but this may not be as bad as you fear - from what you say the school achieves better results than many 'proper' comprehensives.

There are no grammar schools in bristol, GetOrf.

It is not just about getting good results! It is about the whole school experience which you would have to be daft to think will be better at the High School than the Grammar.

Most of the people I know who are successful 'products' of a State education did well in spite of their 'schooling' and developed useful strategies because of it.

Do you mean that your DC are too privilaged already for you to consider educating them in the Independent sector Seeker? If so, that's a poor argument.

No. What I said was that I am politically and philosophically opposed to private education and would never use it.

Ok Mrsrita, there are no grammar schools you are right, but there are several very oversubscribed schools which are very difficult to get into.

Well it was the case a few years ago, I have no idea if it has changed now.

You may find there are bright children at the high school whose parents' principles extended to not engaging with the selective system and not sitting their children for the 11+, there are round here.

I think they're bonkers, but they do exist.

Seeker, I think you may be asking the wrong question. Rather than finding out how many pupils have level 5s when they start, you need to find out what the school does with them. Are classes 'set' by ability, 'streamed', mixed ability? Are they in the same group for everything or setr differently for different topic? What levels are they getting at the end of KS3 / KS4 etc?

You are politically and philosophically opposed to buying something for your child that you can afford and that may make the quality of his school life better?

Oh, Amaretti, you're talking about my parents. I wasn't allowed to take the 11+.

OP, I was fine, and had many intelligent peers

"You are politically and philosophically opposed to buying something for your child that you can afford and that may make the quality of his school life better?"

That's what being philosophically and politically opposed to something means!

Incidentally, I think that "quality of school life" has many meanings.

I was talking to my dd about this last night - how many bright children she has in her year. There are plently - they are looking at 6th form options at the moment, about 5 of them have been accepted to take their A levels at the brilliant grammar in the next town along, the rest of them have been offered places in the city grammars for 6th form. I asked why they never took the 11+ and went to the grammars in the first place, it was a mix of people ideologically opposed to selection, or single sex education (the city grammars are single sex) and moving into the area mid year like we did.

There doesn't seem to be a great number of academically gifted students at the school, but they are all doing very well considering - however I think this is because they are very well supported at home, and work hard ouytside school. Which (imo) bears out seeker's point that if you have parents who are very supportive and have the financial wherewithal and the time to support theirchildren, they will succeed wherever they go to school.