Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Is this a reasonable question to ask a Secondary school, and should they be able to give me an answer reasonably quickly?

327 replies

seeker · 05/03/2012 09:26

We like in an all selective area, and 23% of children go to grammar schools.

Would it be reasonable for me to ask the High School what % of their cohort are likely to start year 7 with level 5 SATS?

OP posts:
Ingles2 · 08/03/2012 20:09

Tbh Seeker, I'm not sure you are being honest here. Would you be saying it was a crap system if ds had passed and was going to the grammar? Did you say it was a crap system when dd got her place when others didn't?
Don't get me wrong, I totally understand your worries, as I said on another thread, I have similar.
But I'm not sure you can say the system is crap, then take advantage of it to the benefit of some of your children, without seeming hypocritical.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 08/03/2012 20:16

Yes, ingles, that is exactly what she did say.

clemmie73 · 08/03/2012 20:19

somethingscary....is the eleven plus website any good ? I did think about taking a look but am worried I might getting addicted to these fora !

somethingscary · 08/03/2012 20:25

There are some great people on there, clemmie73, but lately there's been rather a lot of stealth boasting about private school/grammar school decisions. Some people just like to ave a bit of un and genuinely help others, so it is worth a look. These fora do end to snuck you in though, and before you know it you've got a pile of ironing and hungry kids :)

somethingscary · 08/03/2012 20:26

"Tend to suck", of course

somethingscary · 08/03/2012 20:27

iPads. Aargh. Have and fun.

Ingles2 · 08/03/2012 20:36

sorry nit are you agreeing with seeker there or me?

Original poster
seeker · 08/03/2012 20:36

Ingles, I have said it was a crap system for as long as I have known about it.

I said it was crap when my dd and 10 other white middle class children of graduates in her class at a very socially diverse primary school on the edge of an area of significant social disadvantage passed and nobody else did. If there was the remotest chance of anybody signing it apart fro a few trendy lefties i would be campaigning night and day against it.

I said it was crap when I thought my ds was going to pass. And if there was any possibility all that we could opt out of the system I would. And if you want to search my posting history you'll find that I am telling the truth. You will also find some particularly unpleasant gloating by certain individuals when I said that my son failed. But call me a hypocrite if you like . I've been there before. For me hypocrisy is saying that it's all wonderful and rosy because your child passed even though you know it isn't.

OP posts:
clemmie73 · 08/03/2012 20:46

That's life though Seeker...you'll always find some people who are really quite pleased if things go wrong. Are there friends at home you can talk to ? I know you said his best friend passed, so are you the only one in this situation ? It's hard on here because we don't know you or your son. I've just had a brief look at that forum somethingscary...it's looks quite helpful. Have you had a look at all on there seeker ?

Ingles2 · 08/03/2012 20:47

But at the beginning of this thread you said you wanted your son to go the grammar! ?
Why would you want him to go if you believe it to be unfair? Surely actions speak louder than words and you should be standing by your principles?
And You can opt of this system btw, you know as well as I that the kent test is not obligatory, most children in the area don't sit it.You actually have to opt in as opposed to out, so doing that is hypocritical. Sorry, but it is.
I didn't even put ds2 in for the kent test, as being dyscalculic I knew his chances of passing the maths section were slim, but I'm not going to jump up and down crying about the injustice, as ds1 is doing very nicely at his grammar.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 08/03/2012 20:49

Ingles, I was saying that seeker has been consistent.

Original poster
seeker · 08/03/2012 20:52

It is impossible to "opt out" of the selective system. There are no comprehensive schools in the area.

OP posts:
clemmie73 · 08/03/2012 20:58

How many times do you think you might have to repeat the seeker ?!

clemmie73 · 08/03/2012 20:58

I meant " that " not " the " !

Original poster
seeker · 08/03/2012 20:59

You MAY have noticed that at no point did I "jump up and down crying about injustice" about the situation my children are in. The system as q whole is unjust.

But if you want to believe that I'm only complaining because my child failed then go right ahead. No skin off my nose. If you can't be qrsed to actually read what I say and react to what you think I'm saying, that's not my problem. But the I'm all Right Jack attitude of people who know perfectly well that it's a crap system but don't complain because their own child is benefitting really really piss me off. Don't rock the boat. I would be delighted if the system was abolished tomorrow. But of course you won't believe me when I say that because I'm a dishonest hypocrite.

OP posts:
Ingles2 · 08/03/2012 21:05

But by "opting into" the selective system you're reinforcing it!
Nothing will change while a large chunk of the white middle class children continue to choose to sit the kent test, and it's just lazy to say there is no point standing up to the system. Someone has to, and if your principles are strong perhaps it should be you?
If not, perhaps you could consider Homewood? or try 13+ Cranbrook entrance.
Right, am off to watch Kidnap and Ransom. Night.

somethingscary · 08/03/2012 21:11

She's not opting in, she has no choice

Ingles2 · 08/03/2012 21:18

er...yes she does! she names the local secondary school on her CAF like the vast majority of parents in Kent and hopes the school accommodates the academic needs of her son. Again, like most parents in Kent.

somethingscary · 08/03/2012 21:29

I misunderstood then. In our local area you either have grammar schools, or upper schools, no comprehensives and everyone (virtually) takes the 11plus. Opting out would only have the effect of reducing your choices.

clemmie73 · 08/03/2012 21:41

I'd stick to EPF somethingscary. A better sense of humour can be found there.

Quattrocento · 08/03/2012 21:50

I dunno.

There does feel to have been a double standard in operation here. If you thought the system was unjust, then why enter your children for the exam? If it's an area where superselectives are in operation (which I understand) then the comprehensive schools are comprehensive schools more or less.

I understand wanting the best education available for your children. Of course you would want that. I have done the same by educating my children privately. But I don't say that I educate my children privately because of the failing education system around me. I say I educate my children privately because I believe that it is better than the alternatives, and I am fortunate enough to be able to afford it. Do I think that it is fair or right that my children have a better quality of education simply because I can afford it? No, absolutely not. But at the end of the day, we all as parents do the very best that we can for our children. No more, no less.

Hiding behind this stuff of there are no comprehensives available is equivocation, IMO.

Original poster
seeker · 08/03/2012 22:10

In the area where I live, the grammar schools take around 23%. The remaining 77% go to high schools. No super selectives, no comprehensives. Just grammars and high schools. The system stinks. But the is no alternative to it. You cannot opt of the system.
You can call me a hypocrite because I am objecting to a system where my daughter is a "winner" or some other equally attractive name because I am objecting to a system where my son is a "loser" but I am consistent in my objection. And in my book the real hypocrites are the ones who can see what a damaging, corrosive system it is and continue to support it because their children are doing well out of it. "Devil take the hindmost" is a most unattractive position. And I don't really have words for people who send supportive pms one day, and post insults the next.

OP posts:
TheFallenMadonna · 08/03/2012 22:20

I grew up in a town with 4 single sex grammar schools. I didn't take the 11+ because my mum is very anti selective education. I like to think I would have passed if I had. I got all As in my O and A levels (O levels, so long enough ago for that not to be overly common) at my not really comprehensive. It was OK. You really don't need everyone to be clever to get good results yourself. As I said right down the thread, I think your son will do just fine. But I think things have moved on...

Quattrocento · 08/03/2012 22:25

For the record, I have not sent supportive PMs, although I have posted what can be read as insults. Although I am actually supportive and I do understand your dismay.

I agree that education is a minefield and a mess and a postcode lottery. If 23% of the intake are going to grammar schools then I agree that your DS faces an uphill battle. For which I wish him good luck. He'll be fine.

Ingles2 · 08/03/2012 22:30

Seeker, just because I sent you some advice, doesn't mean I can't disagree with your double standards. And I haven't been insulting at all
I really don't know where you are in Kent, but as far as I know, all of the grammars are oversubscribed apart from those in the Folkestone area.
That means that there will be children who have passed the Kent test at the school you have been allocated, as well as those who are near misses.
As far as I'm aware, most schools try their best to educate their pupils to the best of their abilities. Your fear of the unknown, means you are making sweeping judgements about the quality of education your ds will be getting.