Dilemma... 'more average' sibling to follow super-bright brother to same school, or somewhere else, with a chance to 'shine'??

[fluffyhamster]

I'm sure we're not the first to have had this dilemma..

DS2 has been/ will almost certainly be offered places at two schools, and we can't decide.

• School 1 is a local independent with an excellent reputation (Top 100 in the country). DS1 is already at this school. Doing well (is super -bright with top scholarship etc) Excellent facilities - esp. music & drama (which DS2 is into).

We weren't sure that DS2 would get offered a place, but he has. However we know that he was in the bottom 20% of those who passed the entrance exam. I worry that he might struggle a little, will always be towards the bottom, and constantly in DS1's shadow. It also seems to be a school where you need to 'find your own feet/ stand up for yourself'. DS2 is not massively confident, and may find it hard.

• School 2 is a local voluntary aided school with fantastic facilities and above average results. Rapidly getting even better, but not the same academic pressure as school 1.

We are lucky to be in the catchment for this school - parents lie and move to get their kids there . Feels a bit more nuturing. Is smaller. I think DS might feel less stressed and more confident here. But he may not 'stretch' himself enough if he can get away with it (he has a tendency to follow the path of least resistance...) Music & drama isn't as good though.

The other consideration is that DS2 is very young (August birthday) and it feels as if he may still be doing some catching up vs. his peer group.
The change in him over the last year has been massive, and in another year it might seem as if he could have coped better with school 1?

I just can't decide.
School 2 would obviously cost less too, but I couldn't bear it if in later years DS2 accused us of sending him to a 'less good' school to save money!
Any wise words?

I started DD1 at a private prep which by year two became apparent was not up to stratch so moved her to the local village school. The DC were in the village school for 1, 3 and 4 years before it became apparent that wasn't much better and moved them all to a better indy.
At the age of 11, DC1 has already worked out she had less private education than the other two and has called me on it. They have also realised DC4 will get the most of all and are trying to sell his toys to right this wrong in their eyes
I could not send one child to a comp whilst the other was in a top private school especially if money is not the issue, DS2 must have the same opportunities.

I agree with Heswall and disagree with happygardening about the dangers of future resentment. You never know when and how your DC will judge your parenting and the injustices perpetrated against them versus their siblings and, IMVHO, you want to try as hard as possible as parents to give all your children equivalent opportunities.

I am hyper-aware of this, having two DSSs and then DD. It was clear as daylight to DP and me that DD was going to get a better academic start in life than the DSSs and we work valiantly to ensure that we give them opportunities to help them catch up.

You cannot offer one child a private education and not the other.Well you can but it will come back at you sometime ion the future when they want to know why!
I would be very wary of labelling (if only inyour own mind) your DS2 as non-academic.Boys , in particular, often blossom later on

If you think yourself the harshest judge of your parenting performance, then all you have to do is make the best choice possible for each. There's no accounting for what someone else would have done.

If you think someone else can judge better, then you must do what they would. Just hope they all have the same opinion, or you'll be getting it wrong all the time.

Sorry haven't had time to read through but bear in mind that those entrance tests identify potential as much as current talent, if they are structured well.

My DS scraped into a top indie as far as maths was concerned . His position in the year is now much higher than it was in his y6 assessment papers (he's y9 now) and so I assume there has been movement in both directions, with some heavily-tutored boys sliding down the scale a little relative to the whole year group. I had similar concerns about him coping academically in science/maths, but with better teaching at this school compared to his junior school he's caught up in maths and really doesn't seem to be struggling academically. He has also discovered a flair for subjects he didn't learn at junior school (eg philosophy, Latin)

A lot of it is also about academic maturity - I failed tests at 4+ and 7+ for a top independent school and when I got in at 11 felt very much as if I was near the bottom of the class. Somewhere around 15/16 I caught up and ended up getting very good grades and into a v. good University.

I think in your DS' case there are very strong arguments for letting him go to the same school as DS1.

ime, the school will give your DS2 extra attention & support precisely because he is the younger sibling of the high-achiever DS1. There will be a kind of reflex expectation that he has the same potential & he will garner more patience & more support from the staff as a result than he would otherwise. It won't turn into high pressure unless there's something seriously screwy with the ethos of the school, anyway.

At least that has been my experience in primary school with DS2 who followed DD+DS1.

I'm pretty sure we WILL go with school 1, but I just wanted to clarify that this is NOT such a black and white State vs. Independent issue as it might seem.

I don't want to say too much, for fear of 'outing' myself, but school 2 is really more like an independent school than a State one. It's certainly not a bog-standard comprehensive. It has all sorts of grants and funding, beautiful grounds and buildings, a swimming pool, extensive sports facilities (arguably better than school 1 in some ways!)

Anyway - it's probably irrelevant. Of course, at this stage I am assuming we will get offered a place at school 2 (we live virtually on the doorstep - and nobody in our road has ever NOT got a place) but it will make the decision easy if we DON'T

Just to muddy the waters- my dp is one of 4. All very bright. He is the oldest- university, PhD- the lot. Next sibling got fed up of being compared- left school at 16.

Next sibling, university, PhD again- last sibling left school at 16. It could be coincidence- but it does look a bit like a pattern...

I do think you need to get your older one on board to be incredibly helpful and supportive if this is going to work well for you. I do suspect that dp was absolutely foul to his brother- I've never dared ask!

Unsurprisingly I?ve thought carefully about this resentment from one or both of my DS?s. Will the older one say ?you paid for his education but not mine? well form yr 9 anyway or will the younger one say ?I was sent away to school and he was always at home??
To clarify our situation DS1 never even applied to DS2 school as it would not have been right for him and he would have unlikely to have been accepted, he?s always known this and at his prep many had siblings in different school there was nothing unusual in this. He also after 5 years of full boarding did not want to carry on boarding.
We live in a rural community with very limited public transport our nearest independent has worst results/facilities than our excellent local comp and the next ?nearest option? is a forty five minute train journey after a 20 minute car journey and due to timings the train left at 6.45 am. A lot of agro for only very slightly better results. If suddenly the perfect school turned up on our doorstep would we move him? Or would we look at moving him back into the indie sector for 6th form I?ve thought long and hard about this too assuming his current comp stays as good as it is now no we wouldn?t; he?s happy twenty times more confident than he ever was at the prep and doing well. As the saying goes: ?if it aint broke don?t fix it!?
I have asked him if he feels it?s unfair the answer ?what would I want to go ?. school for?

IME we can always find things to make us resentful of what our parents/school/ friends/ husband/ sister/ brother did at some stage in our lives or we can be mature and realise that this will get us nowhere and move on.

seeker - I wasn't suggesting that some state schools don't have great facilities - it was just that there was beginning to be an implication in some posts that school 2 was very much a 'lesser' school, which I don't think it is, once you look beyond academics.

DH & I have very different perspectives on this too. I went to an excellent state comprehensive (now an academy) and did very well. Was probably one of the 'top 5' for everything academically. This gave me loads of confidence & self-esteem. I then went onto a top university and had the wind blown out of my sails a bit when I realised how many seriously bright people there were around me! All my uni friends who had come from private schools seemed rather more prepared for everything than I did!

DH meanwhile went to a top 100 boys school (whilst his sisters went to local comp.. ) and felt very 'average', although his abilities are probably similar to mine. I would say he still lacks confidence in his abilities.

I would take money out of the equation and decide which school would suit him best and go with that decision. You say that the state school is good and that your gut feeling is that he would be better off there and if that is the case send him there. There is a lot to be said for being a big fish, near the top and not struggling.

I agree with happy gardening and feel very strongly that you don't have to do the same for each child so long as you make your decisions based on what is best for that child. DS1 is at a state primary, DD is at a prep. She was desperately unhappy at the primary and we had to move her. There were no suitable state places and we were not prepared to wait for one to come up so she has gone private. DS was older, settled and doing great so it would have been disruptive to move him. DS2 will go to the state school.

DS1 will almost definitely stay state for secondary as we have one of the best comprehensive schools in the country on our doorstep. My DH and I have discussed it endlessly but we simply cannot think of one reason for him not to go there other than it is free and we are paying for DD. GCSE results are nearly 90% A-C, EBACC is 50%, over a dozen children a year go to Oxbridge with the rest mainly to Russell Group universities. The facilities are amazing and most of his friends will go too. The families in both schools are very similar so he won't lose out there either. I hope that DD will go there too but if it doesn't suit then she will stay private.

I think that it is easy for us to make that decision when faced with good state options, I certainly wouldnt send DS to a poor comprehensive. When you have a good state school available it seems insane to dismiss it purely on the basis that it is state and if you make that decision be confident that you have made it for the right reasons. It is also very common to have some children state and some private round here so I don't anticipate any comeback from him and we certainly never ever discuss with either child that one is having a free education and one isn't. It will come up at some point but as far as I am concerned it isn't even a topic for debate, they are both getting a good education, the price of it is irrelevant.

Is your DS2 good at other things could he make up for the fact that he may be in the lower sets academically but in the A's for rugby or football etc? At many schools even the very academic ones being good a sport gives you a lot credibility amongst your friends.
I notice you asked his brother what he thinks I'm sure if I asked my DS how he thought those of his friends in the bottom 20% cope he would just say they're fine. If your not struggling I think boys inparticular find it hard to imagine what it must feel like and they just dont have those type of conversations IME.

I haven't read the whole thread, but from what you say OP it is obvious that you think the 2nd school (the state one) is the best fit and I do think that its important to choose the school that fits the child. My DS is at an academically selective school, lots of hard work and pressure, he loves it and is thriving but if he were in the bottom 20% I know he wouldn't be happy, which is very important.

However i have a friend with a few children all at different schools, she has gone out of her way to ensure that each of her children have gone to a school that suits them rather than follow their siblings, they have all done very well indeed. However her one DC who went to a state school (her choice at the time) has thrown it back in her mums face as she feels less favoured than her siblings who were all privately educated. I hope that makes sense.......what I am trying to say is perhaps neither of them are the right school for him?

Neither of my DSs are into sport, so no chance of that being a deciding factor!

DS2's 'thing' is drama/music, and school 1 does have a good reputation for that, so that could be where he 'finds himself'?

The truth of it is, that I don't think any of us thought DS2 would get into school 1, but in the spirit of giving him the same opportunities as DS1, we let him apply, and now he has surprised us!
We hadn't expected to have to make this decision I think!

Anyway, as lots of posters have said, now he has this opportunity to go to school 1, we can't take it away from him....

I think you really think that school 2 is the best fit for your ds2. Had you thought of somehow "compensating" -not the right word but you know what i mean-him for not spending school fees on him? extra music and drama or something?

Maybe it's a selfish thing too... I really feel I have had to coach/ cajole/bribe/enforce DS2 through his school career to date just to keep him on track! Perhaps I am worried about committing myself to another 7 years of that!

I vote school 1.

"I really feel I have had to coach/ cajole/bribe/enforce DS2 through his school career to date just to keep him on track! Perhaps I am worried about committing myself to another 7 years of that!"
I?m sorry if I?m being a bit obtuse here but are you worried that you?re going to have to continue doing this at school 1 or 2?
Welcome back seeker long time no hear MN has been what shall we say dull without you!

hg- I meant at school 1, if it turned out to be a struggle for him.
But to be honest, if it turned out like that on-going then I think I'd have to conclude that it wasn't the right school for him, and move him!

Could you move him to school 2 if he didn't get on at school 1?

Where does DS want to go? Has he got other talents? Will he thrive in Drama at school 1? Will he have that opportunity at school 2.

My eldest sister was very bright. My middle sister is an excellent homemaker and gardener, but academic she is not, and is still probably affected by going to the same school where the teachers constantly compared her unfavourably to eldest sister. I was aware of this and was therefore glad that we'd moved before I went to secondary so I started afresh at a new school where there were no comparisons to be made.

Wonders if outofbody is her sister?
that said, i've only ever been the brainy good at sports older sibling. dsis went to the same school as me, achieved far less academically and on the sports fields, but afaik hasn't been scarred by the experience for life... she's certainly earned a darned sight more cash than i have since as well

If she is she'll know that a certain comment about how much better she was at Latin has indeed scarred me for life!

To be honest I was in this position and whilst it started off by getting to me it ultimately gave me a very strong attitude that I'd show them. No I didn't get a host of academic qualifications but once out of school and into the workplace, that attitude gave me a lot more ambition.

Just picking out some of your comments, you say he a bit young, is competitive but inclined to back away if not initially great at something, arty and free spirited. You know what he might just never be great at school regardless of which one you choose. I say go for School 1, work with the head of the lower school and with him to keep him on track where you need to but let him grow up but not always cajoling him. Its early days but when he is older - and if its still like this - take time to demonstrate people who've thrived away from school, show him options for when he is older that are maybe not the traditional ones. IMO Charles Handy The New Alchemists is a great showcase of these people if it helps get your head round what it takes to "shine"

My parents sent me and my sibling to different schools. My big sister went to grammar, my brother to boarding school, my middle sister to an independent school and I went to another. I suspect that my middle sister's school was more expensive, and obviously my brother's school was a lot more. It's never really crossed my mind to rent my parents for this (although I did want to go to a different school, just not to either of my sisters, as we all went to girl's schools and I wanted to go to a mixed school).

It was very nice to go to a school where I wasn't always compared to my sisters as I had been in primary. I've known a few siblings that have been permanently in the shadow of a sibling, and I think it can be very problematic. Might be easier if the two boys are really very different.

The only thing I would caution is giving your child the idea that the school choice is up to them, and then not going with their choice. My sister did this with her ds and it caused a huge amount of resentment (even though he does acknowledge that it was the best choice, he is still angry about it, even though he is at university now).

Personally I would go with the school where you think that your ds will be happier. If music and drama is really his thing and it's really much better then that might be enough to swing it, but otherwise if you think he needs nurturing and his own space, then I'd go with school 2.