Anyone But England

[TobyEsterhase]

My social media is jam packed with Scots declaring their support for DR Congo/Mexico/Norway/ whoever England are playing next.

I find this obsession with our neighbours weird and cringeworthy.

Do you think Canadians make such an issue of supporting Anyone But USA or the Dutch supporting Anyone But Germany ?

Doubly ironic when players like Scott McTominay and Che Adams are about as Scottish as Morris Dancing.

I am Scottish, near border so it’s always been banter.

I was so proud of the Scot’s fans in Boston, as a non football pure rugby fan. The city and the atmosphere captured the nation and the real passion of the Scots.

it was then sad to see England fans arrive, knowing what they had to follow and celebrate and sing fuck off Scotland go home.

it seemed strange. Scot’s would have followed with yes the English fans were great, we will show you better.

but that didn’t happen. The pubs closed. They offended people (I have family there). It wasn’t the same.

they came in with a downer attitude towards Scotland, rather than a

well yes they did this but we are the real winners and we can improve on them

Yes Taiwan are famously extremely supportive to their western neighbours.

The feeling is reciprocated so much that China often claim it to be as much theirs as the Taiwanese, in a friendly way of course.

As an English person who always supported Scotland in football I was really surprised and quite upset to discover at some point around the independence referendum how hated we are by the Scots (many Scots, I should say, remembering the many excellent Scottish people I’ve known in my time) and thought how strange it is that your nationalism is tolerated by the establishment where English nationalism has been uniformly looked down on.
I guess history has a lot to answer for but it seems unpleasant to blame present-day English people for this. No one goes around hating the Germans for their role in WW2 (and 1) in this day and age and it would be highly inappropriate to do so.

That’s odd.
We have family there and they said the English were fabulous and great fun.
Can you link me the media report that stated this?
Or did you just make it up?

'I guess history has a lot to answer for but it seems unpleasant to blame present-day English people for this'

I agree, especially if you're Irish / Scottish / Welsh and have chosen to live in England

I would guess it’s because Ireland had about 4 million people last time I was paying attention to such matters vs England’s 65 million back then. Probably less in the 1950s & 60s…

No one goes around hating the Germans for their role in WW2 (and 1) in this day and age and it would be highly inappropriate to do so.

Two world wars and one world cup? No, the English definitely have no sporting rivalries with any of their neighbours 🙄.

Well I can’t link my family?

but if you pop into instagram, Facebook, twitter and search English fans in Boston you will see the behaviour I referred to.

Sturgeon fought for Independence and was very outspoken in her dislike for England.
When the going got tough, where did she move to?
That just about sums it up.

You mean on Scottish Social Media?
Sorry to disappoint but it’s fake.
The bars were on the BBC restocking for the English fans and no one mentioned any trouble at all.
Sounds like sour grapes.

Ok. You believe what you want to.

of course Scotland has its own social media. and England is now twinned with Boston.

BBC clearly reports from Scotland. Alongside all the Scottish social media platforms from Boston bars. 😂

it’s good though, because it’s this type of refusal to see the poor support and behaviour, that strengthens the Scottish public and refusal to support England.

Yeah - that'll be part of it I'm sure. I think something happened in Ireland about 150 years ago that dramatically reduced its population...?

Have you lived in England?
If you did you would realise no one talks about the Scots. Totally irrelevant to our day to day lives.
I have however lived in Scotland and was there during the last time they got into the World Cup.
Even my kids were subjected to vile abuse.
Moving on, I am sure you watched the true brilliance of England last night. That must have been painful.

I remember the months leading up to the Scottish independence referendum. Awful time. Yes I did feel anti English sentiment.

That song is sarcasm though, its not to be taken literally. Nobody English thinks they will win, all I heard growing up in England was how rubbish the team was and I'm not even a football fan.

I think that after all the constant desire to detach yourself from the English, most people are now thinking, just get on with it.
It’s all your parliament talks about.
its boring.

@lovecotswoldslivingyes I have. And sadly experienced the same as you.

I did not watch last night, but on a personal level am not in pain, more proud of the nation. Hard as that may be for you to believe.

As I said I am more a rugby fan , and my comments were more around fan behaviour. Which in the particular case have made me proud of Scotland and less so of England.

this is scotsnet, not AIBU. And I do think the fans who traveled from Scotland have been a credit.

I've seen countless videos and comments of Americans praising English fans too, so i dont thinn the poster is 'believing what they want..' English fans been the better behaved ones this WC compared to others. On many of these posts there is always
Scottish people tearing the England team and fans down even when nobody mentioned Scotland, its like an obsession for many it seems. Its been quite eye opening, I wanted Scotland to do well despite them being leagues behind England.

I think the English fans have been amazing.
And they will continue to be so, until the end.
Your family have had a very different experience in Boston to mine.
if you search social media to find anti English sentiment, you would be disgusted.

It is really different though. If you are in China, they whole tournament is not coming through a Japanese centric lens. The media coverage is not all about Japan's chances, ignoring or marginalising China.

I am Irish, living in Scotland. We are quite culturally similar, quite self deprecating. We share a similar outlook "it's bloody brilliant we are in it, let's have the best craic". Events like the world cup make England seem quite different.

It would be more fun to watch if England were not in it really. I appreciate that English people might not like that, but the constant harping about how they should win, or even after they go out for a bit, how they should be in the remaining matches, is irritating.

So it is not about just not liking England, it is the whole media approach that makes feel the sooner England is out, the more time there is to enjoy the tournament really.

Billy C got it right, the English don’t think about the Scots at all, but the English seem to take up a lot of Scottish headspace. I loved seeing the Tartan Army in Boston, it was a heart warming and just spoke of a lovely coming together in a monumental sporting occasion. I would totally support Scotland if they got through the rounds. Shame a lot of Scots can’t just leave the past in the past. The English harping on about 1966 has nothing on the way the Scots keep on with the anti English rhetoric.

Or perhaps that the systematic rape of all the natural resources, crops, entire wealth of Ireland, by England, over hundreds of years, depleted it of all the resources that it's citizens rightfully owned?

And you have no clue of population either.

I have a close relative who lives in Scotland and is football mad. He went out to the pub to watch the Scotland matches with his Scots friends and supported them. The same doesn't work in reverse though. They aren't offering to go to the pub with him to watch England.

He's watched the England matches at home so far. He said if we get through this next round then he's going to take the train over the border and find a nice pub full of English people where he can enjoy supporting England in a less hostile environment.

Unlike other sports, football seems to arouse an almost hysterical nationalism. At times it borders on madness. It isn’t just the Scots. Deep down, the majority of fans treat the World Cup as a substitute for war

This is why I prefer cricket. It’s so much more civilised. You could sit next to an Australian or Indian at Lords, discuss the game, compliment one another’s players, and treat it like a sport. If England ends up playing Argentina in the semi-finals, you can bet some moron will try and whip up tension over the Falklands War. Ugghh, I’ll be glad when it’s all over.

I definitely agree that you don’t have to support England and can have favourites you like such as Norway because they’re close to Scotland and a small nation etc but it’s only choosing to support them because they’re playing England that’s the issue.

My family are like this. It was in adulthood that it dawned on me how pathetic and cringey it is. I don’t even get how it’s supposed to be funny. If it was at one point it’s boring and stale now. One family member told me a group of Scots were wearing t-shirts saying ABE (anyone but England) or something like that. That’s just cringey and if I were English I’d just roll my eyes.

English people are largely indifferent to Scotland and the team. Some wish us luck. This rivalry is just in some Scots’ heads. It makes us look small and pathetic.

We should focus on improving ourselves especially our football. Lots of small nations outperform us such as Croatia. What can we learn from them?