SNP lay their stall out - vote for them next May, they will start negotiating to separate.

[RandomGeocache]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgknlj3vr76o

Because they have learned nothing from Brexit. I mean, it's sort of their raison d'etre, banging on about independence and it does resonate with some of their fans who believe that should Scotland separate, we'd all be loads richer. They do appear somewhat confused though - a majority in parliament is a mandate, the biggest number of MSPs is a mandate, a vote for "pro-indy" parties is a mandate.... Anyone would think they were either making it up as they go along, or hedging their bets.

Are we supposed to forget all about the incompetence, the failing NHS and education, the scandals and all the other fuck ups?

So if you don't want to separate, don't vote SNP or Green in May.

I presume you also support Shetland in their suggestion that they should become an independent nation, then Rob?

After all, a huge amount of the oil very clearly is theirs - so why should they stand back and watch England, Wales, NI and the rest of Scotland benefiting from plundering and being financially propped up by THEIR oil?

Maybe then they could form a new country with Aberdeenshire and break away completely from us 'parasites' across all the rest of the UK, who want the benefits of their oil - almost as if we were a union, eh?

No more arrogant appropriating of their resources by Edinburgh, Glasgow, Cardiff, Belfast, London, Manchester, Birmingham and all of the rest, who are labouring under the apprehension that we are one combined nation state, and have been for between 100 and 700+ years?

Absolutely. Particularly the mention of the recent embarrassment of the delegation to the UN. 😂

I'm English (although I see myself as British - personal preference) and of course England is not a country.

Yes, it's one of the four home nations, but it's a part of our actual internationally-recognised country, which is the UK - no more or less important than any other part; although in UK-wide elections and referenda where every adult gets one vote, it will obviously have far more demographic sway simply because that's where the vast majority of the UK's people live.

I'm not THAT old ;)

But yes, I remember reading the History. The 'sabotaged', -I mean 'failed' Darien project.

Thats not even a debate, its just unfounded allegation lol

Why dont you just call me names again because, you know, thats highly convincing. 🤣

Scotland is leaving the Uk and without the dead weight of the British State it will become one of the hardest currencies in Western Europe.

The Uk is already breaking up.

I would say 'It's been a pleasure' but I'm honest. lol

What happens when the oil runs out or societies properly decarbonise? All of your monetary "arguments" around the Scottish "wealth" and "UK stealing Scottish wealth" and Scotland being the "wealthiest nation in Europe" have been based on oil, which is a bit, eh yesterday's news in the grand scheme of things?

😂😂😂 thank you for proving my point.🤭🤭

Maybe take a look at the Zetland Act and you will quickly see that a part of Scotland has netted money directly from oil.

Or is Shetland not part of Scotland?

Hi, @Merrilydancing

Good question. I would say 'Zetland' or 'Shetland' is indeed a PART of Scotland, but it is classed as an 'enclave' of Scotland.

Shetland got a deal via one very determined politician named Ian Clark, and indeed if you look at Shetland you will see the kind of wealth all of Scotland could have had.

But, Shetland is an anomaly, an Island Enclave and is currently part of Scotland, but again it has a separate deal much like Jersey or Guernsey has for tax status. So not really part of the main country (in terms of revenue).

People have said that Shetland could become Independent, but in reality if it left Scotland it would not have the oil revenue (on which it depends) as the mineral rights would remain with Scotland itself.

So no, I would have to say that Scotland hasnt profited, only Shetland. Its lke saying that England has 'x' or 'y' tax status,the same as the channel isles. It obviously doesnt.

As an aside a disproportionate amount of people from England live in Shetland, not unlike Aberdeen.

Ian Clark Obit

Lol, this guy is hilarious. So now Shetland couldn't make it as indy because mineral rights would stay with Scotland. What logic gives then that the rights would not stay with the UK Crown?

Also, Shetland is nothing like Jersey, Gurnsey, or Isle of Man. I'm surprised if this guy can tell his a* from his elbow frankly. Clearly the best and brightest in the world of finance work in Nairn.

And, as per my earlier post, oil's bit of a yesterday's thing. Are we really saying the whole story is to be premised on burning the globe?

Glad you think its funny.

I looked into this a decade ago when this question was raised. The Mineral rights belong to the country, the cant belong to an enclave (so I have read)

(which is more than you have)

Shetland is an enclave!!! Tell that to the Shetlanders, and both Holyrood and Westminster parliaments. Now a I know your on the wind up.

And it was under the Zetland Act and not the Shetland Act that they got a cut of the oil money and therefore refuting your claim that Scotland has not seen a penny of the oil.

The fund has millions and still counting.

No, I am NOT on the wind up.

I looked into this a decade ago and got my answers then.

David Cameron also made a clandestine visit to Shetland in 2014 and just before.

Shetland is not a country, it is an enclave afaik.

The clandestine visit that everyone knew about and was in the local press.

But I will correct you once again, it is as much an enclave as Nairn.

You are either very misinformed, on the wind up or both.

How would you class Shetland? Its not a country.

And not for the first time; I am not on 'the wind up'

And I know it was in the Local Press, I posted a link to it.

Wasnt mentioned in the main Scottish news until after that had happened.

A Scottish island the same as all the rest of the other Scottish islands. It’s really not that hard.

Yes, so as a Scottish Island, if (its unlikely) but if it ever was able to remove itself from Scotland, (and the people in Shetland decided that was what they wanted to do), Shetland would not be able to take the oil rights with it. Those would remain with Shetlands parent country, Scotland.

Shetland would still be in a great position as a port, assuming oil is still being recovered from the East of Scotland.

Anyway, have a nice night 😊

So if Shetland theoretically sought and gained independence, it would not be allowed their oil rights, as they would remain with the country that Shetland broke away from...

But if Scotland sought and gained independence, it WOULD be allowed its own mineral rights and they would not remain with the country that Scotland broke away from?

Erm, OK...

Removed - posted twice owing to MN site slowness and glitch in retaining the message after it's been posted, so you can't always know if it has or hasn't posted.

I look at where women's rights would be if we'd got independence last time and I think thank fuck we didn't. No way I would ever vote for these politicians who decided to flush away women's rights to pander to the Greens' niche interests to strike a deal to keep power.

Yep 💯. We'd be fucked, women's rights even now is still hanging in the balance in Scotland thanks to Nicola and all her cronies. All public sector organisations in Scotland are still singing from the gender ideology hymn sheet.

They are all a bunch of misogynistic so and sos. I voted yes in 2014 but I'm glad it was an overall no vote. I see it now there was no real plan other than for politicians to keep lining their pockets whilst happily removing hard won rights and ruining safeguarding in schools.

@Raquelos and @HagsRule i agree.

good questions asked in times article today. yes they are insulting our intelligence but have been for more than a decade.

one comment liken John swinney’s secret independence plan as baldrick’s cunning plan 😂

John Swinney is insulting Scots’ intelligence, says Keir Starmer

www.thetimes.com/article/463289c6-450b-4609-bc27-12965d2614cf?shareToken=7003864d5b405118e39f7f832817e778

You're all deranged on this thread - the worst of both sides of the argument!

Eloquent argument there. 🙄