Scottish education needs to change, right now.

[Easypeelersareterrible]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/scotsnet/5217850-scottish-teachers-can-i-do-anything-apart-from-go-off-sick

I’ve just read the above thread and it’s just so shocking. I’m not a teacher and therefore don’t want to derail the thread, but everyone in this situation is being catastrophically failed. The teacher, who can take no more, feels she’s been put in an impossible situation and has no choice but to leave. The child with SEN who sounds utterly distraught in mainstream schooling. The other pupils in the class who are only P1 and have to try to learn in an incredibly distressing situation. Imagine being only P1 and this being your only experience of school!

We need to open more special schools and pupil referral units. Mainstream schooling needs to be for those who want to learn and are capable of learning. By putting children with unmet SEN or disruptive pupils into mainstream schooling we are not meeting their need while at the same time destroying the education and mental health of those willing and able to learn. ‘Inclusion at all costs’ is failing Scotland.

Why can’t politicians see this, and take the decision that desperately need to be taken?

I just worry about where it will stop. If only one person was excluded last year there are definitely some innocent children being hospitalised by bullies who are still not excluded from the school. I know for a fact my child’s main bully had multiple assault charges that she had inflicted on multiple children and yet she wasn’t removed from the schools as the school weren’t allowed to do so. They expressed enormous regret that their hands had been tied.

If being charged by the police with assaulting more than one pupil in a school isn’t enough to get you excluded, what is?

My experience is that the police won't charge when the assailant is under 16.

When I was punched in the stomach by a 15 yr old boy, the police "lost the paperwork". The miscreant was later excluded from a college course.

In another case, a 15 yr old girl broke another girl's nose during lunchtime (but off the school premises). The police wouldn't charge the assailant.

I think it's extremely rare and if they do it's never full time hours.

DS had 2 x 1:1 TAs in his class in his English primary school. Neither were for him, they were on other childrens EHCPs, but he was allowed to have help from them.

He built such a strong relationship with both of those ladies and that was what he really needed in school: someone who knew him and who he could trust, like a pseudo mum.

At our current school they do have PSAs but they're not specifically allocated to a child or a classroom so they don't build a bond with the kids.

Absolutely horrendous. No-one cares. Things don't get actioned. Minutes don't get written up.

Went from full time attender in English primary to complete school refuser in Scotland. He's not completed a full year of school since we moved here 5 years ago.

Take someone with you to take minutes, or just notes of agreed actions, then circulate these after the meeting. You will probably find they quickly decide they would rather have their own version of the minutes than yours.

Name changed for this because it is outing.

Our small state school has quite a few neurodiverse children, and they mostly manage fine.

But we have one kid who is ND and he can be incredibly violent. The staff are scared of him. The class teacher has been off for months as a result of a violent attack. Because she's an adult she can go off, and her union will support her.

In contrast, there have been children attacked in ways which could cause profound injuries (think of the type of violence you see in films) but they're expected to walk back into the class and sit alongside him because 'Inclusion' . It's so fucked up. I can't send my DC to the other local school because it has the same problem with another kid.

I am currently looking for a really good investigative journalist to look into this. It's such a mess. What we're expecting young children to put up with is barbaric.

In my county we have no special schools, though I believe a very small number with very complex needs are given places at a special school in the nearest city.

Instead we have support bases within mainstream. At the high school my oldest attends there are 3 classes within the base - complex needs, general learning difficulties and an ASD class. None work at third level. It was suggested my son attend the ASD class there (as he can be very anxious and isn't very socially aware) but we fought it and he is doing fine in mainstream. If he was finding it too stressful the base class would be his only alternative, despite the fact he is academically very capable and would be hugely held back. I just hope he can continue to cope in mainstream or he will be denied the chance to get the qualifications he should be getting.

Meanwhile my other child is in the upper stages of primary and is very dyslexic - she can only spell about 1/8 words correctly. I am very worried about what will happen at secondary as I have heard support is very lacking - IMO she should be given assistive technology but this isn't on offer.

I think either term is fine, tbh. The demise of special schools is an absolute sin, so many children who could receive a fantastic education suited to their needs are being failed nowadays because they are stuck in mainstream due to no special school being available.

Bring back special or specialist schools.

There's one pupil in my P4 child's class who is violent and shouldn't be in mainstream. He needs provision suitable with staff who are equipped to deal with him. It's disruptive to the rest of the class. I write an email if my own DC is affected by his behaviour. Its assault, plain and simple. The more ammunition in writing, the more it will support the school who can't handle him so he can be put into a more suitable environment. The class teacher told me staff are limited, it has to come from the parents. I agree with her.

There is an enhanced provision unit with my own DC's school but they must have limitations over how many can attend due to teacher availability.

Please contact Enquire. They are fantastic and you can often arrange for a representative to accompany you to meetings at school to support you. I will find the website for you....

https://enquire.org.uk/

You'll find there's one kid like this in every class, in every school. Even moving schools just isn't a guarantee it will provide a more nurturing experience for your child.

There's one pupil in my P4 child's class who is violent and shouldn't be in mainstream. He needs provision suitable with staff who are equipped to deal with him.

This is the issue. In theory integration is a good idea but it has to be properly resourced.
But it's been done on the cheap.

When children with significant additional needs were in special schools, those schools had specially trained teaching staff and classroom assistants, their own Psychology/speech therapy/occupational therapy staff. Now you have those same staff trying to cover children spread over a dozen different schools. How much specialist input do these children actually get in school now? Twice a term?
And then the children are being managed daily be non-specialists who don't necessarily want to work in this area

If you can prove your child's current school is failing them or discriminated against them you will find the space appears. My son was badly failed by his mainstream P1 class and discriminated against terribly. I put in an application to the local authority citing examples of the disability discrimination and phoned them told them to get his application approved as the school had a space for him because if they didn't I would see them in court. I wasn't bluffing and they knew it. He started a week later in the enhanced provision school and senior education officials came to meet me a few weeks later to check how things were and to check my if I planned to pursue legal action against his previous school (i had enough proof to do it). I told them no as he was happy, learning, settled and included which is all I ever wanted. Please take no nonsense from them.

@Vettrianofan Thank you, but I've tried them, Kindred, Salvesen Mindroom, Partners In Advocacy and feel like I've just gone round in circles. Nothing ever gets better for my child - they can't cater for him in mainstream and there's nowhere else to go 🤷‍♀️

Thanks @Fundays12 - they’re still trying, except we have a specialist NHS report only about half the recommendations have been put in place. My fear is the panel deciding such things just pingsit back at the school to do the rest, which while it may help is likely to be ineffective without the fundamental change of setting.

we’re trying to maintain civil discorse but I can see how they are carefully wording things to convey certain meanings if the correspondence ever does need to go elsewhere.

And that's again what maskell understands - we know that children need a diverse range of school provision but in very few places does this exist.

No CSP has different stricter categories than EHCP and a child plan is a school level document where the head of ASN is most schools is the HT - no bad incentives or lack of oversight there!

And what do the SNP and local councils want to do to save money?

Reduce council bases for ASN specialists and make them based across schools where I presume, they'll report into the HT reinforcing the closed shop aspect of ASN support per school.

It's a bad system with bad incentives and few checks and balance.

Have you tried asking for help from local politicians? Mine really couldn’t have been more helpful. I outlined the situation, they were appalled and were able to cut through the nonsense spouted by the education department to ensure proper action is taken.

I agree with learning your rights, being able to cite the legislation, and fight for the education your child is legally entitled to. By my god life with a child with extra needs is tough enough. Why the hell should we need to Wade through this nonsenses just to get the education they deserve.

@aesoplover I'm so sorry to hear that, especially if you were moving to Scotland for a better life. It's so unfair on your son.

@Easypeelersareterrible Yes I've spoken to politicians through a parent group I attend. They've been equally shocked and have tried to help but no-one can magic up a suitable environment for my child.

Have spoken face to face with Jenny Gilruth's policy writers and they have said that the Enhanced Support Base is where my child should be, learning academically. But at our school it is full of children who are quite profoundly disabled and the class activities include very basic maths, colouring in stained glass windows and going for a walk in the woods. My son should be doing Nat 4s and that is not offered in the ESB. So therefore he has to be at home.

Schools have been forced to use the ESB for the overflow of special schools, so kids like mine are forced out. I could argue for a place in the ESB but it's not appropriate for him and he wouldn't want to be in that class doing primary school work.

There is literally nowhere for him to go.

Absolutely. My thoughts exactly. I've fought for a long time and it made me quite mentally unwell. I've come to the conclusion that I'll have to make peace with the fact that formal education has failed my child and he'll just have to learn in other ways. I'm angry at this but I can't fight a losing battle any more.

We had exactly the same experience @aesoplover, to the extent of looking round the special/ist schools too. There is no alternative provision available for an academically capable ASD child. In the end, we held our nose and kept him in high school because he said that was what he wanted and - to be brutally honest - we couldn't manage homeschooling. it's only becoming clear now as he decompresses what a horrendous mistake that was, but as a wise friend said, when you have an array of shit options, it's not your fault that you picked a shit option.

@HelloMyNameIsElderSmurf

Yes mine has stayed in mainstream but missed two entire years and just has maths and English sent home. He won't be sitting any exams. He does a few periods a week in support for learning as he can't handle classrooms as they're too chaotic.

I'm angry about it but I am hopeful that he will just find another path in life and somehow be successful in something...