Scottish education needs to change, right now.

[Easypeelersareterrible]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/scotsnet/5217850-scottish-teachers-can-i-do-anything-apart-from-go-off-sick

I’ve just read the above thread and it’s just so shocking. I’m not a teacher and therefore don’t want to derail the thread, but everyone in this situation is being catastrophically failed. The teacher, who can take no more, feels she’s been put in an impossible situation and has no choice but to leave. The child with SEN who sounds utterly distraught in mainstream schooling. The other pupils in the class who are only P1 and have to try to learn in an incredibly distressing situation. Imagine being only P1 and this being your only experience of school!

We need to open more special schools and pupil referral units. Mainstream schooling needs to be for those who want to learn and are capable of learning. By putting children with unmet SEN or disruptive pupils into mainstream schooling we are not meeting their need while at the same time destroying the education and mental health of those willing and able to learn. ‘Inclusion at all costs’ is failing Scotland.

Why can’t politicians see this, and take the decision that desperately need to be taken?

The main target for cost saving is reducing special school placements, and parents can be easily setup too because when your child gets a diagnosis, you typically have a bias to hope that they'll be able to cope in mainstream and be included and that things will go to the upper end of whatever your expectations are.

people should be very concerned because the Sen crisis is not being dealt with, and nobody has a decent plan.

The SG just stick their heads in the sand and say "Ooh look at our figures for exclusions - they're so low our schools are amazing" I'd love to see a government minister teach in some of our schools - they wouldn't last till break time.

We have a local primary that has an SEN base. On paper it's a great idea. The pupils go into mainstream as and when it's appropriate and have the rest of the time in the base which has a sensory room and lots of suitable resources for them. However it is always the parents' ultimate choice whether to put their child here - they can insist they go to the other mainstream school that I taught in which has pitiful resources and teachers without training or experience for dealing with them.

No sure how it works in England - do parents have the ultimate say in where their child goes. I know that getting into schools is always a much bigger deal there than it is in Scotland where you just tend to go to your local school.

Yes and also no EHCPs and the CSP which is supposed to be the equivalent is like hens teeth.

My SEN child had a much better experience in an English school than in Scotland. Though I appreciate we may have just been lucky with a particular school.

My SEN child just needed a calm working environment. We went private in the end. My child's well-being is worth more to me than the cost. The VAT really sticks in the craw though. My other children are at state and the endless disruption it ludicrous. One of my children has anxiety about the atmosphere there. He just says he always assumes someone is going to do something violent at any point, he’s constantly on edge. This anxiety is borne out of his experiences at this school. This is what we are doing to our children’s mental health.

A big issue I've seen is that there is a huge overflow of special school kids into mainstream.

Our secondary school has an enhanced support base.

This is supposed to be for kids who are academic but can't cope with the pressure of going to a different class every 40 mins, different teachers, crowds etc. (I was told this by a representative from the Scottish Government) This would be perfect for my son. But the base is full of kids with complex medical needs, incontinent, unable to read etc and there is no space for children like mine. Scot Gov say these kids should be in special school and there is space, local gov say no there is no space, these kids go to mainstream.
Ultimately as DS was unable to cope in mainstream he has missed his entire high school education and gained no qualifications. I am so angry about this. He, along with many other quiet, intelligent, non disruptive kids have been squeezed out of school and forced to stay at home with very minimal basic work sent home.

I do believe in inclusion and I don't think that disabled or neurodivergent kids should be "shut away" in special schools, but whatever is going on now is not working and there are a lot of kids who have been completely and utterly failed by the education system.

Luckily for my child I have tried to take up the slack when it comes to teaching him but I've had to give up my job to do so. Some families will not be able to do this and I don't know how they are managing.

I think private would have worked really well for my SEN child but we couldn't afford it.

I think there needs to be more choices for schools rather than just mainstream/special/private.

Totally agree @aesoplover overriding it all I feel we should be encouraging school diversity - as many different types of school as possible so that parents could be supported to choose what's best, and not simply what's left.

But the entire drift is towards larger and larger secondaries where 'all needs can be met'.

A state school with boundaries, with calm classes, where pupils respect each other and the teachers, pupils who are there to learn and have fun and not beat each other up. That’s what my child needed and so many other able SEN children need too, and that’s what private provide them with. I think mainstream should provide this to all pupils.

The issue I have with a ‘special school’ for the likes of my SEN child who couldn’t cope with a boisterous secondary school is that they - like many ASD kids - are really clever. Does a special school have the funding to offer a range of subjects at the top end of advanced higher? I imagine not.

Everyone deserves a calm educational environment. The private schools manage it. Why can’t state?

One of the reasons the private schools manage it is because they have the power to exclude pupils.

“the base is full of kids with complex medical needs, incontinent, unable to read etc and there is no space for children like mine. ”

I'm worried that’s the enhanced provision on offer here, @aesoplover but trying to find out is very hard!

for those that went private, what kind of school did you chose? as to me private = exam based entry and not for those off the academic track.

It's horrendous. I have professional experience of asn schools and mainstream schools, as well as two children with 'high functioning' additional needs and a third in p7
My oldest has left and my middle is in S3.
It's a perfect storm. ASN schools would not be the right fit for my DSs as they don't have a learning disability, but mainstream was challenging.
My local authority is looking at slashing the number of learning assistants without whom the barely functioning classes won't function at all.
It's no good for anyone and no one's needs are being met.

My OH was incredulous at some of the things that went on in our school. It wasn't an inner city school in a tough area but a small coastal school in the NE - just the kind of place lots of people moved to after Covid for a better way of life - what a joke.

Teachers get very little sympathy- short working days, long holidays blah blah blah. Any time there's a report about what goes on all the replies are "When I was at school there were 40 in a class, no PSAs"etc. There were no EAL pupils arriving with no English, very little inclusion, special schools existed and bad behaviour was able to he dealt with.

It's a disaster. Goodness knows how it will be changed.

We went for a mainstream academically selective private school. My child got in fine. There are lots of mild ASN / academically high achieving children there, all escaping mainstream. But where I live (Edinburgh) there are options that are not academically selective. St George’s girls school is supposed to be a kind, nurturing school for instance.

I think this too.

Thanks @Easypeelersareterrible

if anyone could point me at non-selective private schools with good ASN provision in Aberdeen & shire, I’d be grateful?

I'm a SENCO and primary teacher in England. I'm also Scottish and go home regularly. I really do think things in Scotland are worse (which is quite incredible given how bad they are down here!).

So so sad but I am not surprised at all.

How can it be changed ? Are there petitions for topics to be raised in the Scottish Parliament like there are for the UK Government?

Agree with you @GutsyBiscuit

We moved from South East England to Scotland thinking it would be better here (I grew up here) and it's just horrific.

There are such a lack of rules and regulations in mainstream compared to England which I don't think helps. For example, attendance regs in England are extremely tight (which I don't agree with), however, due to this, schools have to step up to the plate to keep kids attendance levels up.
Scotland: child is too overwhelmed/distressed to attend and I was actively encouraged on occasion to keep him off. Told by class teacher she has 32 kids to deal with and she can't meet his needs.
Also now at secondary school he is only managed 3 periods a week yet his attendance is marked at 100% 🤷‍♀️

@Manch2024 Yes it's been raised multiple times but Scot Gov always come back with "we have increased the budget for education by x% and it's down to individual councils to spend that wisely" 🥱

I think they looked at disruption in classrooms and the education minister put aside £900,000 to help retrain teachers in their (proven to be useless) favoured behaviour management tools. So patronising! Like teachers need retraining in utterly useless behaviour management strategies https://www.gov.scot/news/improving-behaviour-issues/#:~:text=Education%20Secretary%20Jenny%20Gilruth%20has,strategies%20in%20schools%20post%20COVID.

Then Jenny Gilruth (education minister) came out with a long awaited plan to table behaviour in the classroom by … carrying out a review and some fact finding … rather than coming up with a plan and taking meaningful action. Totally and utterly useless.

www.gov.scot/publications/national-action-plan-relationships-behaviour-schools-2024-2027/

It's ridiculous that pupils in Englsnd can be excluded for having an inappropriate haircut or skirt yet up here a pupil can physically assault a teacher who is then expected to continue teaching them

Is there any evidence that inclusion in mainstream schooling actually leads to better outcomes for SEN pupils? Or was it all done to save money?

I was at school in Scotland between 1977 and 1990, I can’t remember there being any SEN students in any of my classes 🤷‍♀️, though there may well have been some who were autistic and it wasn’t identified at that time. I’m guessing SEN children were still being taught in special schools then?

My secondary age ds was body slammed by a pupil school and the head phone and was desperate for me to take it to the police because it was the only hope he had of dealing with it. I was horrible because ds said immediately after it happened she didn’t mean to, she was in a meltdown and panicking being chased through the school, my ds came out a class at the wrong point but knows the girl and knows she’s basically just caged in school with no way to interact. He told the police as much. I know they school wanted me to play it up but he said there was no malicious intent, no intent at all really whereas the kid bullying him was extremely intentful but not violent so there’s nothing to do. Anyone who works in eduction knows it’s not working but the alternative needs money.