Composite classes and deferred P1s

[Nogg]

Can anyone reassure or talk me down from
my stress and annoyance at the school system here.

My DS has been put in a composite class P1/2.
As far as I can see this is due to ability my DS is quite young for age and abilities.
Im not too happy tbh. He is in a birthday groups he could have started school this new academic year.

I feel like the whole system here in Scotland ( compared to England) is very disorganised atm.
Children allowed to start just as they are turning 6 and some only 4. They don’t seem
to learn much in P1.

Also I feel guilty if I kept my DS back he would be an older P1 may have done better and now I’m feeling he is being channeled into late developer.

My other child could read and write in the English system by now phonics and homework.

I feel like he will be discriminated against and disadvantaged in a composite class having to stay in the P1 area with kids playing.

Im really paranoid about labelling children too early and teacher impressions holding people back.

From personal experience I was slightly labelled in primary school even though I ended up excelling academically. My primary experience still affects me on some levels. I think my son and me are similar ; slightly odd socially but able.

Is there anything you can do about composite classes? I feel like he has been give the shorter straw and also they need to get a grip of the age groups and deferrals.

What would you like them to do? If numbers dictate the need for a composite, there is not much the school can do.

You said yourself he was a younger P1, sounds like this may be a better thing for him. In any event he will be working at the level he is capable of (Early or First) regardless of the class he is in.

Yes I can see the school has no choice but it seems suboptimal.
I don’t want my DS disadvantaged
because the system seems disorganised with too big a age range allowed for a P1 start.
Should I have deferred him to start this year so he could be one of the oldest?

Not clear is your child P1 or P2?
IME, composite classes are slightly harder on the younger group, as they can get "left behind" by the more capable older children.
Obviously a great teacher will work all the children to their ability (but not all teachers are great).

I think generally that because so many people defer then it increases the detriment to children who are younger and are not deferred
No one really likes composite classes but with a decent teacher they can work

He is the older P2. although he could be in this class if he had been deferred as a P1 ( due to this ability to defer for so late now in Scotland)

doesn’t seem ideal to be honest and he is at the mercy of wether the teacher is good enough.
also the social disadvantages of being not in the proper class.

also the communication is not great. No one knows the ratio of p1 to p2 etc.

no one wants to be in composite classes so obviously it’s the short straw and your not even allowed to complain!

Yes I feel all this deferring is to the detriment of my DS . If I deferred he could be a year older and now he is stuck in the composite class being labelled as less mature. I just think the system is really not very fair. Not everyone can easily defer if your single parent etc working you can’t necessarily defer easily.

Composite classes are so common in Scotland and schools are used to dealing with them. He will be doing the same things as the other P2 children. I think the Scottish system is a lot better than the English system. Having been a child who started school at 4 years old, and my DC all being 5 or nearly 5. There certainly aren't almost 6 year old in P1.

They are almost 6 actually you can defer now as long as you are not 5 before the first day of term.

That doesn't look like a good way to select children for the composite class. DS was in primary in a similar system in Australia, children aged four and a half to six starting school, composites common. The children chosen for the composite class were those most capable of working independently and at year level or above. This way the teacher could set work for one year while working with the other. Children working below year level were not chosen as the ones in the older age group would feel discouraged by younger children (or children their age in the year below) finding the work easier than them.

You say he is young for ability. Is he actually below year level? He could have been selected if he works well independently, could this be the case?

I don't think being in a composite class is a negative thing in general. DS was in composites three years in a row, including as one of only 8 year two children in a 2/3 class. Though he was young for the year and always in the bottom year of the composites. So six and a half in a class with children turning 9. Composites suited him, but he was selected because of this.

There is nothing wrong with composite classes as long as you have a good teacher. The teachers are used to teaching to different levels and abilities, it's literally their job!
My sister did the first half of primary school in a school with only 2 classes in whole school.
She has a degree from Glasgow university and now teaches languages in secondary school.
There's areas of Scotland where children don't know anything other than composite classes and they seem to have done just fine.

Allowing deferral is great. My youngest is 6w older and doing so much better than would have in year above.
Teachers minds are set in reception as to a kids ability. And behaviour.

Composite classes can be very successful. Are you sure the school make the decision based on ability? I would ask for their reasoning and also what the class split is.

My DC is just finishing P1 and has been one of just five P1s in a P2/1 class. DC turned 5 in Feb and is the youngest in the year. They spend half the day with the other full P1 class doing literacy, numeracy etc. and spend the afternoon back in their composite doing topic work (general learning across the levels).

I will ask because they have not freely offered or discussed the information. I think the communication is a bit poor over the issue tbh

@Nogg our school sent a letter about composite classes explaining everything and the Head made himself available for any parent who wanted to query it directly if they had concerns. The school should definitely be communicating with you better.

DD2 absolutely loved being in a composite class, despite being literally worried sick when it was announced.

She was very young for the year group but it didn't cause any issues, social or otherwise and she's done really well through secondary and uni.

One of mine was in that situation, although council rules demand it was done by age only.

It was great, he flourished as a slightly bigger fish in a similar aged and abilitied pond, rather than the youngest in his original class. They are less aware how their class compares to others than they are aware of how they compare to their classmates, so the being labelled young or behind was actually less. They re-shuffled them into classes at P4/P5 and it's been fine, the younger ones have caught up and the smaller size of the composite has helped too.

@SkaterBrained
That would not have worked for DS at all to do it by age rather than suitability for the class. He was usually the youngest or second youngest but fit in well socially in his year level and there was a maturity gap between him and children the same age but in the year below in cub scouts and similar. Being in the bottom year of a composite worked very well for him, particularly in maths where he could work with the year above.

I was dubious of composite classes intuakky too - 4 sons and I have 2 who are a year above each other. elder is march b day younger is a June birthday both have been in composite. I really liked them. Gave them a chance to mix with other children so both have plenty friends outwith their year group.

Smaller class size and teaching was just as good as in a straight class. You could have a January born younger child in the same class as a child almost a year older in a straight primary class the teacher has to be able to teach children at different stages and levels that’s their job. I’ve not had an issue. I think being the older child in the composite will do him good and help with confidence. They also get to mix with their class in year group activities. Def not a disadvantage in my experience.

*I feel like the whole system here in Scotland ( compared to England) is very disorganised atm.
Children allowed to start just as they are turning 6 and some only 4. *

Untrue. The cut off dates (applied nationally) ensure that no P1 is older than 5yrs 6 m, or younger that 4 yrs 6 m. 4 yr olds can defer entry on request to enter at 5 and a half. Nobody is "turning 6".

In Scotland, the school year (for everyone) starts in mid August.

https://education.gov.scot/parentzone/my-school/general-school-information/attending-school/

They don’t seem to learn much in P1.*

That's also untrue.

All my children were educated in Scottish state schools and the grandkids still are; I'm a teacher, educated in the English system, taught in England Wales and Scotland. Well placed to compare them. The Scottish education system is different but IMO broader, fairer,and better designed for childrens needs.

Not everyone can easily defer if your single parent etc working you can’t necessarily defer easily.

That's nonsense. There's no rationing of deferment; it's available to any child in the age bracket whose parent applies.

"If your child is still 4 years old on the date they are due to start primary school, you can choose to delay your child's entry to primary school by a year. Children who have deferred entry to primary school are now entitled to an additional year of funded early learning and childcare (ELC)."

From the link
Deferred Entry to School If your child is still 4 years old on the date they are due to start primary school, you can choose to delay your child's entry to primary school by a year.

Wouldn't this mean a 4 and 11 month old could defer a year making them 5 and 11 months, or 'turning 6'?

I disliked the idea of composite classes but our experience has been excellent. My youngest is starting in August and her class will be p1 through 3. At every opportunity the head teacher has stressed that teaching is pitched at the child not based on year groups and that certainly matches what we've seen with her brother who is working ahead in maths (also in composite class).

I'm also a big fan of deferral. My eldest (late feb) birthday with speech issues definitely benefited from another year at preschool. Where we are though, 90 percent of jan/Feb birthdays are deferred so I think most people take that into account when considering what to do themselves.

I don’t know where you get the idea that they don’t learn much in P1! It’s the first year of school - they learn tons!

Composite classes are usually based on age: for example if there is a P1/2 and a P2 the younger P2s will be in the composite class. The teacher will differentiate by ability. Some of the P2s may need to be re-taught some aspects of phonics. Others won’t. The teacher will teach and set work regardless of age.

It is good practice for P2 to be play-based where possible, so I wouldn’t worry about that.

Planning for teaching and learning is complex whether you are teaching a straight or a composite class, and it’s based on the starting points of the children based on the teacher’s initial assessments.

@EVHead
How does age based work if, for example, you have a young for year child who is top of the year group of 110 for maths and in the highest guided reading group (which is weighted towards the older children in the class)? Couldn't this potentially leave them without similar ability peers?