I am currently very pro Scottish Independence…

[Iheartscotland]

what do you think, objectively, are the best arguments for independence?

and/or

for remaining in the union?

Answers that are well reasoned and backed up with facts and figures would be great, but you know- go with whatever you feel.

I’m going to be generous and assume you struggle with reading comprehension. Goodnight, sleep well.

And you’ve done a fine job fanning that haven’t you. Sleep well.

Every single word yours.

'manipulative, untruthful, hypocrite. Smug, brainwashed, babbling unionists. Shameful. Grovelling to Westminster cunts.'

Every single word.

Try putting them in the context I used. Or alternatively I can go back through the post and quote every single thing thrown at me or independence voters. Context is everything and that’s precisely what I meant about being manipulative.

I agree with a PP, the SNP and independence are two different things. Yy the SNP is a bit of a mess atm (although overall still better than the Tories in WM). But the independence movement is so much bigger than the SNP. There's lots of grassroots groups doing great work on independence, the Claim of Right, economics, etc, from the Common Weal to Salvo.

MN is an odd place to ask about it though. I find there's a very hard core of anti-Scottish posters on here. You'd be better asking on Twitter.

No. I'll think you'll find that no voters are not anti-Scottish. On the contrary we think independence would be an absolute disaster for Scotland and that it would be an astonishing act of self harm. We're the ones trying to protect Scotland from those that would destroy her.

I didn't mention no voters. That was you.

I’ll say it again as you have, once again, deliberately re-phrased your words, I’ll even include your original post: you quite specifically call them ‘a bunch of English cunts’ and as I pointed out, in this context you are using English as a racist slur, otherwise it’s meaningless in that context.
when you were pulled up on this you initially tried to defend yourself by explaining about all the unfriendly people you met in England. When that didn’t work you are trying to say that’s not what you meant, it’s only people that don’t vote like you.

There you go, my reinstated post. As you can see I am clearly referring to the current government and not ‘English people’.

Been back to look at context - that's 10 minutes of my life I'll never get back. Doesn't change a thing. The general gist is that anyone who disagrees with you is a Tory shill.

One of the things that really annoyed about the previous independence campaign was that anyone who raised doubts was painted as a quisling, traitor, 'no true Scot'. We were made to feel unwelcome in our own country. But you know what? There were enough of us. So what do you make of that? A majority of Scots are actually quislings, traitors, not true Scots, Tory shills?

It's my country, just as much as it is yours. And the SNP and their supporters didn't make (and still don't make) a good enough case.

Anyway OP, if you are interested in learning more about independence, read some of the Common Weal's papers, read Salvo's summary of the Claim of Right and read some of the work around land reform and land rights.

There are lots of academics and professionals who are passionate about independence, and their research is a good starting point.

Avoid the posters from either side who want to name call and who show a complete disrespect for opposing views.

I can only assume you’re surreptitiously focus-grouping for one of the election candidates. Maybe Ash Regan, she probably had a lot of friends on here since December?!?! We

(I’m for Kate Forbes myself)

I voted no in 2014, swung quite hard to pro-Indy given all the Westminster corruption, but find myself losing heart. I reckon we’ll see everything overtaken by climate concerns within a few years anyway. I don’t want a hard border with England. I always thought the negative rumours about Sturgeon were ad hominem political smears, but now I’m really beginning to wonder. Suddenly a husband-wife team at the top looks very dodgy.

This article by Alan Little was interesting, on the remote chance that you’re not some kind of electioneer: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64761495.amp

Oh my god you really are stupid! It doesn’t matter who you are being racist towards, whether it’s the whole of the English race or just a few specific English people - the fact you called them ‘English cunts’ is racist. If you learn nothing else from this argument please learn that.

Don't the SNP insist its MSPs follow the party line or you are out? So no proper debate is allowed.

I find it hilarious that NS touted the look at me with my super forward thinking, woke Government (gender laws) and now the public are leaning towards Kate Forbes - extremely unwoke and uninclusive - so NS's ideas did not present the voters at all. Just her projecting herself.

MN is an odd place to ask about it though. I find there's a very hard core of anti-Scottish posters on here.

I find this REALLY offensive. I am Scottish through and through. For generations. Born here, lived here most of my life, Uni here, kids here, kids in school here.

But because I don't support independence i'm "anti-Scottish"?

Yes, being told that you aren't Scottish enough and told to move to England because you stand with the majority of other Scots who don't want independence. 🤷‍♀️

It is ironic to call Kate Forbes uninclusive given the efforts that are being made to exclude her for her Christian beliefs, and by extension other Christians and those of other faiths who share her beliefs or have similar beliefs. Just shows how exclusionary/intolerant NS ‘inclusive’ SNP actually is.

Avoid the posters from either side who want to name call and who show a complete disrespect for opposing views.

That would include yourself then VictorStrand for name calling those you disagree with as ‘anti-scottish’

Was just about to post exactly this.

There are anti-Scottish posters on MN. I didn't connect them to either side of the independence debate. They have had posts and threads deleted because of their racism.
It's interesting that you are assuming they were anti-independence. Nowhere in any of my posts did I say that.

What's "either side" then Victori? You do know you're in a thread discussing independence right?

My posts are very clear and I'm not getting drawn into your arguments. If you can't understand my posts feel free to ignore them. I'm not going to respond again.

OP here are links to the websites I mentioned that have research and papers on different aspects of the independence debate. They are both focused on independence and not linked to one specific party.

Common Weal Independence Think Tank

Salvo - Scotland's Claim of Right

I think our media and newspapers have failed in this. None of them quote Muslim or other religions’ beliefs and how they contradict the support for eg gay marriage.
All the blaah blah about the rights to free speech in the U.K. but they toe the line on ‘woke’ stuff, rather than giving all views. and as you say Kate Forbes is being castigated. But much of the rhetoric from fellow MSPs sounds purely misogynistic to me.

Just a general point, but being anti-English or anti-Scottish if you happen to be English or Scottish is xenophobia, not racism.

Doesn't matter what you call it @maranella , it's ugly and nasty.