I am currently very pro Scottish Independence…

[Iheartscotland]

what do you think, objectively, are the best arguments for independence?

and/or

for remaining in the union?

Answers that are well reasoned and backed up with facts and figures would be great, but you know- go with whatever you feel.

A referendum on breaking away from the rUK is asking the Scottish electorate if it wants to take an enormous gamble and have something taken away from them, like being made to leave secure employment and becoming self-employed doing something the leavers think will be nice but is hugely risky and doesn't allow you to return to your former employer.

So, if 69% of the Scottish electorate voted to leave the rUK and we ended up staying in, the 69% wouldn't have materially lost anything. The status quo would remain. It's not the same as voting on which of two equal things you'd prefer.

I thought the Scottish Gov could change taxation (as it already has done), benefits, I think there is more child benefit paid in Scotland than the rest of the uK
uk.news.yahoo.com/family-benefit-hailed-most-ambitious-130848847.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9uZWV2YS5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAFAzEvhrFZQr-EuT7Pn9mpvb4nrx1fvZ4x8NyZploJXjXzbYTJqqHRCUpSIIf_rQSqlXnlvdciwVz6hm8p1W7Hq1qNcmsKSX5JuaTFsPD1eL8JSpDkWzCvF0_Af81wkdOSUugbRxb2HqYo7H064irup7SH-R-QduRwfYf6fAKFPW
Employment law - imv it's nigh on impossible to sack someone nowadays - so many hoops to jump through (retraining etc must be offered first etc etc)
What do you want to do with energy despoil more hills with wind turbines than the thousands we already have. Ban oil so Aberdeen truly goes down the pan (see earlier posts from that area).
Move the nukes - not easy but then lets just get rid of them and let Putin keep us under control - he'd appreciate that.
And all countries have separate votes on Brexit - yeah, so Scotland wants to stay but the rest don't - that'll work well.
I'm sure you don't live in Scotland or you wouldn't have such a rosy view.

Also good luck to Northern Ireland - their industries (like Scotland's) have al moved on and they would really benefit from the new laws if they are passed.

I've long thought strongly unionist parts of Scotland should be allowed to vote to remain as UK governed once the leave plan is on the table - after all, there won't be a hard border.

I thought the Scottish Gov could change taxation (as it already has done), benefits, I think there is more child benefit paid in Scotland than the rest of the uK

Some power over this but not enough, I think Scotland would need more. The child benefit is very good compared to the rest of UK, but unemployment should be higher.

Employment law - imv it's nigh on impossible to sack someone nowadays - so many hoops to jump through (retraining etc must be offered first etc etc)

Incorrect, however any employment protections that are enjoyed now as a result of previous EU law compliance will be repealed by the end of 2023 along with the rest of the EU laws. This has been reaffirmed by Sunak.

What do you want to do with energy despoil more hills with wind turbines than the thousands we already have. Ban oil so Aberdeen truly goes down the pan (see earlier posts from that area).

No, I want Scottish MSPs to have control over energy regulation, investment and revenue. Westminster had mishandled this issue consistently.

Move the nukes - not easy but then lets just get rid of them and let Putin keep us under control - he'd appreciate that.

A nuclear deterrent for UK so long as we are apart of it is fine, however we should have more of a say on where they are kept and how they are managed. It’s too important for us not to have a say.

And all countries have separate votes on Brexit - yeah, so Scotland wants to stay but the rest don't - that'll work well.

Sorry not 100% clear on this point, could you expand a bit further?

Also good luck to Northern Ireland - their industries (like Scotland's) have al moved on and they would really benefit from the new laws if they are passed.

Not sure what this is in reference to either, could you explain a bit more?

Thanks!

And yes, I do live in Scotland, moved here from England. Because, controversially(?) I think Scotland is better than England. I have a very rosy view, because I love Scotland and I think it’s a wonderful country with a very bright future

@Iheartscotland mishandled energy how?
Do you know how the fiscal metering, carbon emission pricing and taxation actually works for oil and gas or are you just going off of headlines and making broad statements because that's what the independence movement has stated?!

Maybe look a bit closer to home and the Scottish govt underselling offshore wind blocks first oh and don't forget the Scottish govt now think that oil and gas should be shut down after wanting to rely on it to fund the 2014 independence.
A year later the price per barrel had plummeted to around 35-40 dollars (not pounds!). Its only been in the last 12 months it's gone high again so 7 years of low prices and low taxation which the companies reporting billions of pounds of losses.

I don't think you have much understanding of the industry or the North East of Scotland!

How do you know there won’t be a hard border? Scotland could decide they don’t need one but they couldn’t stop England deciding they do.

But agree if Shetland and Orkney vote to stay in the union then why should they be dragged out by voters in Glasgow?

Errrrr a hard border was confirmed as needing required by Nicola Sturgeon herself over 12 months ago in order to chase the dream of joining the EU in an independent Scotland......not sure where you have been to not know that one!

Was it not just Glasgow and Dundee who voted yes?

when it comes to increasing welfare payments, where are you getting the money from? The money available isn’t infinite. Increase money from somewhere, you have to take it from somewhere else. We have increased child benefit payments for those living in poverty but reduced money given to councils to run services. Is it fair to increase unemployment benefit when in order to fund thing e.g. local authority services will be cut back? Personally, I don’t think so.

Agreed. If you want Scotland to be in the EU, a hard border is mandatory. It’s not something you can pick and choose on a whim. Something that Boris Johnson is only just realising.

Scotland couldn’t even begin to apply to join the EU for at least ten years after independence anyway. Basic requirements before you apply are a track record of monetary policy, judicial systems, legislation, human rights etc. Those would need to be set up on independence and until they have been sorted and the economy has started to stabilise the clock won’t even start ticking for having a track record. Only once that has happened could the process of applying start and that could easily take another decade.

Wow - I'd assumed a hard border was such a bad outcome given the trade implications it was a non starter! No not sure how I've missed that!!

Damn it I was thinking we could end up with Italian style city states!

Let Glasgow leave and put a hard border round it? Now that’s an idea!

A hard border would be interesting for the farms that straddle the current border

Glasgow city or greater Glasgow?

Dundee might want to go too.

No, I want Scottish MSPs to have control over energy regulation, investment and revenue. Westminster had mishandled this issue consistently.

so you’d make all the energy companies public owned? How would you pay for this and compensate all the pension funds invested in them. I can’t see Scottish,BP etc allowing MSPs to get their sticky fingers in it.

The nukes need a deep water port so either where they are now or ?I think it’s Plymouth but as it’s on the busy English Channel it’s probably safer to have them in Faslane

@hryllilegur just Glasgow city please. As far as I'm aware east Dunbartonshire was one of the highest no votes in the country.

Well as an English person in England I was always and am still wanting a union as stronger together.
However then we get this tory fascist culture war bull shit and I saw a glim of light with sturgeon I thought wow a woman who’s progressive trying to be.
wanting to bring the GRC Bill in to keep them align to mainland Europe since Spain has just passed same law guess what no manic stories coming out even Ireland has the same and no major stories coming out.
But the transphobic gov that we have in England and the right wing press and the lurch to the far right that we are all going stopped that didn’t it. Now so many trans people are leaving the U.K. and Canada just had a petition to see if they will host trans refugees from U.K. and USA. They will be debated in may any how I digress that makes me now give no shit as if they elect that Forbes in and the Snp jjst becomes another anti lgbt party then do what ever scotland wants I don’t care would be nicer together though.
As an English Cis woman I would have been tempted to move if the snp had got that bill and been progressive and even independent as they treat disabled claimants which I am better than England does.
i would have moved with my trans friend to but now it looks she’s off to Canada and I really hope that the U.K. starts to become more tolerant again to minorities .

I saw a glim of light with sturgeon I thought wow a woman who’s progressive trying to be.

As a woman, I can tell you that Sturgeon was indeed very trying. Any light that you saw was bouncing off her halo🙄

Shouldn’t grumble, we do have the baby boxes.

East ren’s was even higher than east Dumbartonshire. Close to the Shetland result.

I guess the independent state of Glasgow, north Lanarkshire, west Dumbartonshire and Dundee would be a utopia.

The many border posts would be a pain in the arse though. 🤣

'Now so many trans people are leaving the U.K. and Canada just had a petition to see if they will host trans refugees from U.K. and USA.'

Someone has drink the hyperbole
juice, haven’t they?

Re the trans offences in other countries . Transmen are recorded as women.

Re The nukes : doesn’t matter where they are stored as I’m sure we all understand the fallout of a Third World War .

I embrace the Union . This is a fantastic country and anyone who thinks otherwise should take themselves off to a 3 rd world country for a year . I promise it will change your perception of the UK . They certainly aren’t concerning themselves with GRR bills .

The economy is no 1 and on the day Independence is signed the IMF will be in the room dictating interest rates . We will have no power over that and it’s unthought out disastrous consequences . The pro independence think tanks overlook that fact which immediately destroys their arguments from the beginning .

Re the windfarms or curtailment costs set to soar as more are built .

In 2022 The National Grid spent 215 million paying turbines to switch off and 717 million turning on gas turbines to fill the gap . 😂😂😂

Sky news have picked this up so I hope it brings it to the wider public attention and we stop destroying Scotlands natural beauty