Views on Sunak 'blocking gender bill'

[leepinglizards]

I would describe myself as gender critical and opposed to this bill but this doesn't sit right with me.

Sturgeon will just bleat on and on about sovereignty and he's handed her more of a platform IMO.

What do you all think?

Destruction of democratic rights.....Scotland voted to remain in the UK, what happened to that right.

Scotland also voted for its own parliament that could make laws on devolved matters
and whether the GRR bill touches on UK wide legislation is a matter of opinion

I'm not a fan of the current govt, but the letter detailing the rationale for issuing the section 35 is very clear about all the different ways in which it would impact on the rest of the UK if Scotland was permitted to do this, and in all the different ways it interacts with non devolved legislation.

To consider one small example; if 16 years olds can gain a GRC in Scotland they would be able to access single sex schools anywhere in the UK. This isn't currently possible, as you can't currently obtain a GRC when you are under 18. The Equality Act was written on this basis.

It's not a 'matter of opinion'. It will. Hence why they've trigged it for the first time since devolution.

And on what planet does wanting sex based spaces to remain for women and girls equate to 'not liking trans people?!'.

There are loads of men I like, wouldn't expect them to harm anyone, yet I still don't think they have a right to access certain spaces or because of a feeling they had. Genuine trans aren't the problem, it's the bad men (of which there are many) who would seek to abuse loopholes. How can we tell the difference? We can't.

I voted for independence. I wouldn’t now. This bill was a shocker . I will never give a vote to a party who , when women say they have concerns and are scared, don’t listen . I suspect this fight was what NS wanted all along .” Feminist to my fingertips”? What a disgrace

You can try to act as though Scotland is independent, but the reality is it is not. Ghe UK, on the other hand, is an independent sovereign state.

You do nothing but argue in bad faith and ignore the facts.

The Scottish electorate voted for a LIMITED local government and Parliament without making either of equal standing to the SOVEREIGN Government and Parliament which are UK wide.

The Scottish electorate voted so knowing Westminster would remain the Supreme Legislator in the UK. Its in the Scotland Act, you know. It even states Westminster would not normally legislate on devolved issues but does NOT prohibit it since it is sovereign itself.

Domestic and international law is NOT on your side at all.

Absolutely agree the problem is abusive me, that's what we need to tackle
I don't think this Bill is a problem in that regard - but I accept I am in a minority on that in this light title corner of the internet
However I do strongly believe it is a matter of opinion on whether is impacts on reserved area. like so much of Scottish politics we have two givers with opposing views on this. the courts will back one of them I guess
but too all of you saying you won't vote SNP because of it, who will you vote for - because politicians of all parties backed this Bill

abusive MEN ffs

I see the "nasty Westminster undermining our wonderful parliament" message is resonating with the nationalist contingent.

It's very simple.

The Scottish government has the right to make laws on devolved matters which only affect Scotland. Health, education, tax to a limited extent etc etc. What they do not have the right to do is to make legislation which undermines or affects legislation which applies to the whole of the UK. That includes Wales and Northern Ireland by the way, not just England.

Just as the Scottish government cannot unilaterally declare a new Scottish minimum wage of £20 an hour, or decide that from now on all passports issued to Scottish residents are going to be tartan, they cannot pass legislation which affects equality legislation for the rest of the UK. So the Westminster government has put the brakes on and asked them to go back and consider again. It has very very little to do with transgender rights and everything to do with legal process.

But of course the SNP don't want the facts and the legal issues exposed and discussed. They had the advice that this would probalby be the outcome but pressed on to keep their wee pals in the Green lunatic fringe happy, and because it plays well into their sole purpose which is independence.

@ClosedAuraOpenMind Correct. You don't need to give abusive men more open doors to gain access to women. Which this Bill would.

It's not even about abuse. It's about dignity. If my mum developed severe dementia and could no longer care for herself, and someone had to provide intimate care, she would want someone - a female - to do this for her comfort. Not a transwoman with a penis, no matter how nice or harmless they were, or how they identified.

That would be her right. And if they were really a nice, kind person, they would understand this too. You need to ask why there are those pushing against this? Shouting bigot for not getting their own way?

@VinoDino I just don't see how the thing that stops abuse is the fact that you have to wait 2 yrs for a GRC. to my mind predatory men are going to abuse women, and all this Bill will do is make life a little bit easier for a small number of trans people
But as I said, I accept not many people on here believe that
Still intrigued to know who you're all planning on voting for in the next election though, as this was supported by MSPs from all parties - even though it suits the narrative of some to portray it as NS/the SNP/their "wee helpers" in the greens who are pushing this through
cos that ain't the case

@ClosedAuraOpenMind again, it's called safeguarding. This 'abusive men will abuse anyway' is the same as burglars will burgle anyway, so why bother with locks, alarms, ring doorbells.

If someone believes they have a gender dysphoria, that needs counselling, treatment, scrutiny, to navigate them through legally changing their gender (as it's impossible to change sex) and potentially life changing body modifications. Most other 'important' things in life need scrutiny. Getting a mortgage, getting a divorce, opening a bank account. Changing gender is massive, why should that go without checks and balances (especially with sex offenders)?! To do it to teens, young people possibly with autism, those who don't fit in somewhere, Asperger's etc is madness. You can be a male and wear dresses, that is ok!

To answer your political question, I'm politically homeless at the moment. There's no one for me to vote for. I can't and won't support self ID and I can't with good conscience vote for the Tory's.

Well I know which of my MSPs supported this and which didnt so that will inform my vote next time around

Except the waiting period isn't the only thing that's changed though, is it? Wee bit disingenuous of you to miss out the other (arguably more contentious) changes agreed in the GRR Bill, as well as amendments to stop predatory men, including convicted sex offenders, from abusing the system being voted down by MSP's. And the Scottish public do not back the changes.

And Patrick Harvie is so determined to quell any sort of free speech that he accused the SNP of not doing enough to stop 'transphobia' (i.e. any kind of questions being asked) within the party.

How much of the public vote did the Scottish Greens get in the 2021 election? I'll have to refresh my memory. I do know that Lorna Slater, co-leader, didn't even get a respectable percentage in her own constituency.

That's what I was thinking!

I am happy with this block too.

I think it will be spun as ‘non democratic’ and ‘oppressive’ which I am worried about. But, as a pp said, we don’t have a second chamber here. Who is actually engaging in debating and querying all of this headline policy? And when we the snp deal with the lack of growth and terrible record of literacy and numeracy; far poorer than that of England.

I think we also need to remember that if the legislation was changing to not allow changing gender until age 25, for example, then there would be outrage and people would be happy with a block. But because it’s been labelled as ‘progressive’ it automatically means that this action is seen as ‘regressive’. But the checks and assurances must be there regardless of if it’s seen as liberal, or constricting.

enjoy all the sex offenders that will flock up to you for the freedoms of access to victims

Very good point actually. Scotland will be a safe space for sexual deviants masquerading as trans.

Its so wrong in constitutional terms I assume the SNP did it deliberately. Scotland is full of clever lawyers. Oddly they are all quiet on this, because they don't need the embarrassment.

Anyway, it's a salutary lesson in "just because it's written down, doesn't make it true". I look forward to the Lord Advocate's case for JR. Should be good!

Well someone needs to do something, bloody mental, personally I think it’s just a distraction from all the other things that they are fucking up , we can’t even get two bloody ferries built. Never mind the state of the NHS and housing.

Which the Scottish government would put all there effort into NHS, Education, infrastructure, and housing.

@VinoDino I've said my piece and am bowing out of here. it
just glad to hear you're not voting Tory - they're not the defenders of women's rights...

Yet again Nicola and the SNP are wailing about an attack on Scottish democracy - when they were guilty of the worst disrespect of the views of the Scottish electorate when they did not respect the result of the independence referendum for a nanosecond. Not to mention the way they ignored the opinion polls in Scotland showing that people did not support the GRR bill.

It is clear to me that they only respect the views of the Scottish people when they agree unquestioningly with the SNP.

At the moment they are the only party who is coming close.

The SNP and the Greens really have lost my support over this - in fact I spoiled my ballot paper at the last election, for the first time ever. However, my MSP is Ash Regan, who resigned her ministerial post in October due to concerns over the proposals, so I will see how things stand at the next election.

The times have picked up on the fact that so-called independent third sector gender lobbyist are just an extension of the Scottish Government:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gender-bill-lobbyists-get-millions-from-snp-vtx7h98s8