Views on Sunak 'blocking gender bill'

[leepinglizards]

I would describe myself as gender critical and opposed to this bill but this doesn't sit right with me.

Sturgeon will just bleat on and on about sovereignty and he's handed her more of a platform IMO.

What do you all think?

But in a prison for women where they can't escape its also acceptable is it? Or maybe a women's hostel or rape crisis centre?!
Jesus wept there is one thing to believe in independence quite another to ignore all the failings of this legislation and put women at risk because its come from the SNP!!

Do you leave your house unlocked and your keys in your car too?

That was to SweetPetrichor

@SweetPetrichor no attacks have to happen for a woman to have the right to be in a space, designated just for women with vaginas, without the presence of a penised male. However they feel on that day. It's about dignity and privacy.

Yes they can just walk in and rape someone, but it's called safeguarding, look it up. Just like we lock our doors at night despite the fact that if burglars want to burgle you they will.

It's really not that difficult love, speaking as a fellow Scot.

Why should transwomen (men) be able to take a place on a women's sports team when they possess physiological advantages?

@SweetPetrichor And I bet the tiny minority of people who are suffering from a genuine dysphoria (trans) don't want to harm anyone and live their lives in a way that feels that's most authentic.

But the fact remains that 98% of sexual and violent crimes are committed by men. And we can't tell which ones are genuine trans, and which ones pretend to be something else in order to harm women. AND THAT DOES HAPPEN.

Hence why sex based spaces exist. Why do trans feelings (and not rights as they have the same rights as anyone else) trump women? Who have been fighting oppression for years?

Oh, lovely. The 'you're going to get raped anyway, amirite?!' argument. It always makes me feel a bit sick.

And in terms of sex offenders, there seems to be a hell of a lot of sex offender 'transwomen' who discover that they are trans during their convictions and then change back to their original gender once they are released from prison. A strange co-incidence...or an obvious abuse of the system by predatory men.

www.nationalreview.com/news/transgender-sex-offenders-placed-in-womens-jails-in-scotland/

archive.ph/2022.10.04-232359/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/half-of-scottish-trans-prisoners-changed-gender-after-convictions-pftqbbhg6

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/anger-trans-inmates-revert-males-25840252

Oh, but Shona Robison says that doesn't happen, right?

Explain to me how you know every person in that public toilet or similar female space with you has a vulva? You don’t. Unless they all drop trou at the door to be allowed entry, and if that’s going on then there’s a weird world out there I have yet to see. Or do you start blocking out tall females…females with more traditionally masculine facial shapes…all because the might not be a ‘true’ female.
If someone has a GRC marked female they have as much right as us to be in there. Penis or no penis.
Sports, we’ll that’s a whole far more nuanced thing. It’s not black and white, none of the gender recognition stuff is. Women shouldn’t lose out in sports, of course not.

But this is entirely off the topic of the thread so we should draw in the argument. I won’t agree with you, you won’t agree with me - I don’t think we’re going to get any further than that. We shall each hope that our own view of common sense prevails!

@SweetPetrichor it's pretty easy to tell the difference between a male and female without looking at what's between their legs. Even masculine looking females. Currently, if a male is encroaching on a space he shouldn't be in, my spidey senses think, hey, he shouldn't be here, and I can act accordingly, whether that's to challenge him or not.

If any man now just has to say 'hey, I'm a woman!' and a shiny new GRC gets granted, women now just have to put up with that. Fuck that.

Sex matters and no one is calling me a bigot for believing that in certain circumstances- this matters over feelings and validation.

Roll over and be a 'soooo inclusive' handmaiden all you like but when it comes to safe spaces, prisons, sports, providing intimate care and rape crisis centres biological men should rightly be excluded.

That’s okay, I’ve never set foot in England and have no particular intention of doing so…so I’m quite happy to stay in Scotland, and would probably welcome a great big wall

Who said nationalists are not anti- English? 🙄What a numpty.

My DP is English. I’m not anti-English, just anti-England!

I dint think thats any better to be honest.

Maybe not in your opinion, but it would be a boring world if we were all the same.

And the issue of sport isn't particularly nuanced - it's addressed explicitly in the EQA2010 -

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/14/5

And the irony flew right over your head since you were talking about anti-trans bigotry. 🤦‍♂️

Being anti-England is a bigoted position and you really cannot blame anyone for saying you're anti-English too.

Having an apparently English partner is not proof you're not bigoted against the English. You're displaying the same kind of thinking of "I can't be racist because my OH or friends are black"......🤷‍♂️

As I said, shame on you for trying to make this issue an English v Scottish thing when it is not one.....

But being bigoted against England is fair game for many (hard of thinking, parochial, poorly-traveled) nats.

Ah the “genital inspection” argument because pp believes transwomen cannot be trusted to accept women’s boundaries and stay out of female spaces. Isn’t it transphobic to assume transwomen will trample safeguarding measures like this?

Have a look at what Rhona Hotchkiss has to say about trans women in women's prisons. If anyone understands the issues it's her.

Overruling a Scottish law is not on whether you think it's a good or a bad one.

The sooner Scotland gets it's independence the better

If it impacts UK law it certainly is on.

It certainly does if it directly negatively impacts women and girls in another country. Which has already been explained to you in this thread.

I was on the fence about independence but it's a definite no from me under this shit show. Sex offender's rights above women's rights? Nope.

It's not English politics, it's UK, and Scotland is still part of the UK whether you like it or not.

I for one am glad the UK government stepped in and no way will NS get any of my support from here on in.

If a s35 order hadn’t been put in place this would still have ended up in court. It effectively removes sex as a protected characteristic and undermines women and girls safety privacy and dignity. It destroys women’s and girls’ human rights. This difference would be it would be down to thousands of Scottish tax payers to fund the court case.

By implementing this change Scotland would be fundamentally changing UK law - in several different ways. They are trying to make changes in areas which aren't devolved. Scotland is trying to overrule UK wide laws.

This has only happened once in the entire lifetime of the Scottish Parliament; I think that actually says quite a lot