Views on Sunak 'blocking gender bill'

[leepinglizards]

I would describe myself as gender critical and opposed to this bill but this doesn't sit right with me.

Sturgeon will just bleat on and on about sovereignty and he's handed her more of a platform IMO.

What do you all think?

Agree- also a supporter of independence but the way they have elevated sex offenders over women has destroyed the SNP for me.

Feeling some love for uk labour and Starmer too - for me it's squarely about teens and mental health which is the real crisis. 16-18 is such a tough age.
Furthermore I hope labour have got plans to do something to improve mh access for young people which is dire.

I agree with @Y0uCann0tBeSer10us it's absolutely clear this was gamed out by the SNP - kids are being used to further the usual agenda.

I agree with all the points made re the lack of competency in the Scottish Parliament. But I just don't think the majority of Indy supporters will see it the same way. It'll be the usual Westminster= bad, Holyrood = perfect

Sheer relief.

Shame that the Scottish Parliament made this mess.

Relief, but confusion as to why she felt this was the hill to die on - with the majority of us up here not in favour of this, it's not exactly going to persuade a significant majority that independence is the way to go after WM intervenes.

I can't decide if this was part of her game plan all along, or whether she's got pulled along by the Greens and found herself in the middle of a shit storm with no way to get out except to double down and hope she could get it through relatively quietly - and now her incompetence and the true ramifications have become very apparent right across the UK.

Tbh, those particular Indy supporters view it as a religion. There is no convincing them of anything with facts or logic.

Sturgeon needs to convince the rest of Scotland, and she’s not doing a great job there frankly. Mostly she’s making it clear to lots of people why scotland might need some governance from Westminster.

Very pleased he did. Not just because of the obvious batshittery surrounding it, but because it would have a knock on effect on the rest of the uk, and despite my thinking that effect would be detrimental, I can also see that even if it was beneficial that it’s not for the devolved countries to do that. Any even if it gives her more to bleat about, she’s seriously funded off a lot of people with this, so the more whining, the more she’s reminding people.

It seems like a reasonable decision - issuing GRC to anyone over 16 who wants one without any checks, diagnosis etc fundamentally changes the impact of the Equality Act. The Haldane ruling makes it clear.

It's an interesting mess; designed to set up another "we're oppressed, will of the Scottish people suppressed by Westminster" argument, but this isn't a widely supported piece of legislation and support dipped as it went through parliament and more people became aware. Disquiet isn't limited to GC feminists anymore, it's popping up all over the place.

Not sure how this will go overall but it's going to result in massive scrutiny and this isn't an act which holds up well to scrutiny.

I agree that this massive row, while unpleasant, can only shine more light on all aspects of this which can only be a good thing. The more people are aware that, for instance, the Scottish Prison Service routinely places male rapists in women's jails, the less public support there is. We saw this over the course of the year when the public went from being generally disinterested to overwhelmingly opposed once impacts on women started to be reported in a balanced way. Hopefully, when we come out the other side we'll have a better balance of rights for women and transpeople, and perhaps even an acknowledgement that it IS a balance of rights in the first place (we can but hope).

Interestingly, this petition has garnered around 120000 signatures in less than a week (so has to be considered for parliamentary debate) and is still storming ahead at 2-3k per hour. I wonder if this is the backlash in action, particularly the capture of schools by organisations like Stonewall. I'm not sure how I feel about it personally, as I have no feelings either way to LGB being taught in Primary Schools, but the T is more problematic. It's kind of a shame the LGB have tacked themselves to the T as they risk undoing a lot of their progress. As do 'genuine' transpeople too actually, who were generally allowed to live their lives in peace until the TRAs (who tend to be the most obviously male from what I've seen) started taking the piss so outrageously.

I think for those who feel that Westminster is overruling the Scottish parliament and our democracy, have you actually considered the fact that this is the first time this has happened in twenty plus years it has been in existence- what is so alarming about this legislation that they have had to step in?

I have read the legal position by the Scottish KC, Lord Keen who stated, “it would not only be impractical but constitutionally improper for the UK government to permit a devolved legislature to enact a provision that had a material impact upon the operation of the law throughout the United Kingdom.”

Indeed a few other KC’s said sometime ago that this would happen as the UK government would have to step in from a legal position.

They also highlighted weeks ago that this would first go through the Scottish courts and ultimately the Supreme Court.

Now NS would have known that this would ultimately happen. She has used this as a political platform and for some reason has used the Trans movement to force the hand. I think she has overplayed her hand to get Westminster to step in as this is not a popular piece of legislation.

I personally am happy that they did and I hope that others start to question the motives of pushing this through, using up huge amount of parliamentary time when it wasn’t even on the snp manifesto.

I don’t like it - I don’t like the feeling of England sticking it’s oar in like that but my hope is that it helps push independence forward. I’d happily look towards a day when Scotland can make its own decisions.

In this case Scotland stuck her oar in first.

Interesting that Joanna Cherry has tweeted that this needs to be resolved in Scotland. I wonder if that’s what it will realistically come down to, mostly because who the hell will fund it to become a legal battle of Scotland V Westminster?!
Or perhaps Nicola is planning to use her ‘legal’ qualification and oratory skills to represent herself in court? Nothing would surprise me at this stage. Desperate times.

Scottish politicians wouldn't even prevent convicted sex offenders from assuming new identities and being able to access women and girls in women's spaces. I cannot believe that they refused to do that.
English politicians are intervening because Scottish policies will affect English women and children and they will not permit that. Good for them.
And whenever Sturgeon starts bleating about Scottish democracy remember the 'consultation' about the GRC, that only trans women were consulted, not real women. That's SNP democracy for you. So bring on the Westminster veto.

I agree. I am no fan of Rishi or the Tories.
But this is the 2nd ill thought out piece of legistlation that could affect my vulnerable child & someone needs to halt it.
Imo NS knows its a steaming pile & expected (engineered?) this stand off.
she will squeal on about 'Westmonster' & use it as fuel for her IndyRef2 train.

Cazziebo
'Sturgeon is using trans people to create a grievance. In the face of failing public services, poor education, appalling social care provision she's pushing change your name and pronouns and hey presto you're a woman as the hill to die on. It's disgusting.'

This is exactly what DH and I were discussing this evening - he even used the phrase 'What a hill to die on'.

It's all about independence, accusing Westminster of meddling etc etc. I wonder if she actually gives a shite about trans people tbh. It's purely a means to an end. So few people understand what the legislation actually means. It's not the legislation people are talking about but the implied interference. She's a canny crack as my dear old Mum would say.

Most Scots didn’t want this ill in a million years. There’s a collective sigh of relief that a grown up had entered the room. The greens have a strong grip and Lord alone knows why.

Scotland are throwing women and children under the bus in the name of progress you want to be independent and have yourself your family at risk from paedophiles and rapists fucking carry on but I want a bastard wall around you and no you can't come back in when you fancy it enjoy all the sex offenders that will flock up to you for the freedoms of access to victims

Fucks sake would it have killed you to put a tiny bit of thought into safeguarding

Same conversation here. I agree with all your points…canny crack, indeed.

Spot on ! It beggars belief the naivety of some ...it would be paradise for perverts!! Thank goodness Sunak has stopped it. I’ve no doubt surgeon did this to cause a stooshy she knew this would happen and she will play the same old card of Westminster overruling to stir trouble. She’s a piece of work for sure...doubt she gives a fig about trans it’s all to make trouble clear as day...

Not when it will impact on uk wide laws.

The unnamed - you can’t argue with a turkey voting for Christmas.

that it will impact on UK laws is what the UK Gov and opponents of the GRR bill say - Scottish Govt say it won't, as all it does so simplify/speed up an existing process

Thank goodness for them! The bill destroys women’s rights and they way it was passed was obscene. A lobby group proposing a bill, the same lobby group forming the committee to examine it inviting other lobby group members as witnesses. Refusing to publish the majority of consultation responses. Only two days for 150 amendments which the same lobby-group led committee voted down. They whipped their parties to vote for it. Had Scottish Government solicitors arguing one position in court whilst ministers simultaneously argued the other in Parliament. Stated their position was backed up by third sector organisations - which were also part of the lobby group, were funded almost entirely by the Scottish Government and had to subscribe to the Scottish Government position in order to receive funding. And who didn’t ask their service users. Sturgeon saying they weren’t aware of any problems of clashes with uk legislation when it had been raised by EHRC and in various consultation responses show they did as we suspected and ignored all responses they didn’t like. Women wearing suffragette colours were removed from the public gallery by rainbow-lanyard-wearing parliamentary staff. Even before the consultation began Sturgeon announced women’s views as not valid. And THEY have the affront to say s35 is not democratic! Ha!

Remember Sturgeon took to a broom cupboard to record a tearful apology to trans people when she reluctantly removed the whip, in the face of a likely revolt, to allow her party to vote for allowing a woman who had been horrifically gang raped to request a female forensic doctor to record her internal injuries rather gender so a man who identified as a woman might have turned up instead. Of course with the GRC she could still have a man turn up, and accuse her of hate crime if she objected, and everyone would have to insist he was a woman even if he did absolutely nothing to change his appearance from other men.