Views on Sunak 'blocking gender bill'

[leepinglizards]

I would describe myself as gender critical and opposed to this bill but this doesn't sit right with me.

Sturgeon will just bleat on and on about sovereignty and he's handed her more of a platform IMO.

What do you all think?

I'm relieved it's being block, but hope it doesn't garner support for Independence.
I'm a firm no after this, I hope it'll be the end of NS.

There was a statistician and polling expert from Glasgow university on PM yesterday - their research suggests 2/3 of people in Scotland are opposed to the legislation. As pp have said, it's been pushed through with no room for dissent. Someone had to do something.

*"people here are happy to see the destruction of democratic rights, just because they don't like trans people"

Absolute bollocks and the same straw man that has been used to silence proper debate about this from the start. It's not 'transphobic' to recognise that gender and sex are different things with gender being a social construct, that it isn't actually possible to change sex, or that vulnerable groups require facilities on the basis of sex, or that accurate data collection is undermined by 'self ID', or to think that doubling down on stereotypes isn't good for children, or any of the many issues thrown up by this Bill that weren't properly dealt with.*

👏👏WELL SAID!!

If anyone hasn’t seen it yet, google Tom Swarbrick Maggie Campman interview. She’s certifiably insane.

I’m relieved and thankful Rishi Sunak has done this.

yes NS will spin to try and garner more outrage and support for independence.
We all have representation in Westminster through our MP.

Will those outraged by this also be disgusted if in the future, an independent Scotland who is part of the EU have to toe the line and perhaps overturn Holyrood laws and regulations on the rulings of EU parliament and court?

For perspective Scotland have 6 out of 705 MEP in 2019 (0.9%).
Westminster has 59 Scottish parliamentarians and 650 (9%)

This whole thing has been bizarre.

Why was it rushed through like emergency measures with the MSPs there til the small hours of the morning? Where was any of this in the manifesto to know you are enforcing the will of the electorate?
Why could we not take the time to consider the amendments and how it intersects with the equalities act properly?

Whatever your stance on independence or trans rights I think this shows up the flaws in Scotland's democratic system and a major need for reform if you do want independence . There are insufficient checks and balances.

Not just with this but with the named person, ferry contracts, pretty much every piece of legislation the SNP has ever tried to get through. You may think the ideas are good ones (some are) but the process and finer detail is a sticking point every time and they usually fail on any kind of legal challenge so we're not robust and lacked the consideration they deserved.

The SNP has proved woeful at legislation. This was always heading this way. If deliberate I find it unpalatable to use a sensitive issue this way. If not, it displays an inability to ensure the legislation you are proposing is legally sound.

I've just watched this! Haven't picked my jaw off the floor yet

Maggie Chapman is bonkers. And utterly detached from reality if she thinks that you have to have your chromosomes counted to work out whether you're male or female.

It wasn't a free vote. Only the bravest MSPs will have voted against the party whip

Whatever your stance on independence or trans rights I think this shows up the flaws in Scotland's democratic system and a major need for reform if you do want independence . There are insufficient checks and balances

absolutely.

The serious issue of competence in SNP led governments are alarming. But the design of the system with no further scrutiny of legislation makes this far worse.

One of the few checks and balances in the devolved system is the powers that Westminster are now being forced to use. And that’s only possible because the Scottish government is exceeding its authority (as decided democratically as part of the devolution referendum- in which the people of Scotland voted for an executive with wide ranging powers but not infinite powers; the independence referendum demonstrated that the majority of Scottish voters were not up for transfer of all state powers via independence).

It’s only because the SNP and Greens are (undemocratically!) trying to increase their government’s power by stealth that there’s any possibility of intervention.

Trying to paint processes that force the Scottish government to stay in the lane decided for it through legitimate democratic processes as ‘undemocratic’ is disingenuous at best.

They don’t get to legislate in ways that affect uk-wide equalities legislation. It’s not ok for the Scottish government to force through a policy that the people of Scotland did not vote for and impose it on the whole UK. That IS undemocratic.

It is absolutely right that the UK government - which represents and is voted for by the people of Scotland too - takes actions to defend its reserved powers from an overzealous and expansionist devolved government.

any ‘oh but no one voted for sunak in a general election’ rubbish doesn’t wash either. No one in Scotland voted for the greens to have the power and influence they have. Stones and glass houses.

They voted because they had to.

This

Thank goodness the UK govt has acted. The majority of people do not agree with this legislation especially when asked about the detailed proposals. I really wonder what would have happened if there had been a free vote. I think Ash Regan was very principled and brave to stick her head above the parapet.

Phone in on radio Scotland just now. Painful to listen to

I'm not pro Sunak or pro Tory by any means but in this case the UK government has acted to protect women and girls across Scotland from a situation where Nicola Sturgeon has actively sought to strip away their rights and compromise their safety.

@Lovinmyblanket in what way?

Painful in the (possibly deliberate?) misunderstanding of the issues.

Scottish government aren’t doing well with their policies at the moment.
UN rights of child- stopped being integrated into law because the Scottish government had overstepped their jurisdiction. Deemed illegal in current form, still awaiting amendments.
Gender bill blocked by westminister.

it feels all a little like a child pushing boundaries.

Exactly all of this, excellent reply.

I am glad Westminster has stepped in. This legislation clearly shows the problems with having a unicameral system.

I am concerned about how easy it will be for the SNP to spin UK overreach, but hopefully the fact that so many Scots are against the Bill in the first place will help.

@Coxspurplepippin - the expert on PM yesterday was Prof Sir John Curtice of Strathclyde University. He's an expert on all political polling matters. (I'm a big fan!)
I'm glad the GRR is being so widely discussed. The more light the better. The WM needs to use its powers here.

Best thing he has done since becoming PM in my opinion. It is dangerous I'll thought through bill and would affect whole of UK.

Sturgeon did this to force a constitutional crisis to further her devolution agenda. It is bad law and the UK government is right to block it but they have been pushed into giving sturgeon what she wants.

I'm another one who thinks NS is being disingenuous and has used this legislation to curry favour with the young and provoke outrage when it is inevitably challenged by Westminster. She not daft and is capable of thinking several steps ahead. I've been lurking on Reddit and unfortunately most posters on there think such views are bigoted paranoia and Nicola and crew are noble and transparent in all their endeavours.

Tremendous.

Checks and balances.

There aren't enough in our one party state. Nicola isn't used to not getting her own way unchallenged.

I think this whole bourach highlights the lack of competence in the Scottish Parliament - and it pains me to say that. The members of the committee were cherrypicked to represent one side. The witnesses were similar. Dissenting voices were not heard or included as an afterthought - and many of these dissenting voices were the most expert.

The lack of knowledge of the MSPs on this (and other matters) is an embarrassment to Scotland. They're like a bunch of students who get behind a flag without taking time to consider the issues properly. Maggie Chapman was incoherent yesterday. (and how can a party with so little public support have such a loud voice in our parliament?)

There were many voices saying that the bill contravened the Equality Act, and for it to get as far as this is shameful. Donald Dewar (oh to have his like back again!) didn't fight for devolution for it to be derailed in this way.

Sturgeon is using trans people to create a grievance. In the face of failing public services, poor education, appalling social care provision she's pushing change your name and pronouns and hey presto you're a woman as the hill to die on. It's disgusting.

I'm a proud Scot, formerly pro -Independence, who is embarrassed to be Scottish.