Are women in Scotland aware of how bad things have got?

[Leafstamp]

I hang out on the Feminism board a lot, and I know not all MNetters care for that section. Which is fine. But I am continually appalled at how bad things are for women in Scotland - compared to England.

For example, this, from Feminism thread:

www.spiked-online.com/2022/02/01/the-thought-police-are-here/

To briefly summarise:

• Mridul was born male

• Mridul is legally male with no GRC

• Mridul is the CEO of Edinburgh Rape crisis

• Mridul claims women who want female only rape crisis services are bigoted and should 'reframe their trauma'

• The CEO of a domestic violence charity Nicola Murray stopped referring women to Mridul's rape crisis service due to Mridul's misogyny

• Mridul reported Nicola Murray to the police for committing a hate crime

• The police actually visited Nicola Murray to question her thinking

Please can any not-particularly-feminist women share how you feel about this?

Not always. It would depend wouldn't it on medical advice and their own personal circumstance.

It's certainly not for you or any of the rest of us to decide is it?

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria yes. I’m interested in the “why?” too.

It’s a pretty strange thing for a Scottish government to be so obsessed with.

Maybe funding given to trans organisations and NHS funds directed at transitioning would be better spent on mental health support.

I think you are slightly overegging the pudding that you are afraid of going to hospital to be faced by male nurses and male patients

Depends on her previous experiences surely? I have ptsd as the result of a violent rape over a period of several hours. It happened a long time ago but I'm still dealing with the ripples. It basically ruined my life, it's there all the time waiting to ambush me at inconvenient times and I regularly wish he'd followed through his threat to murder me. Yes I've had therapy, lots of it and I hate myself for that cowardice because when his hands were around my throat I'd have done anything for one more dawn.

As a result of that and my experience with even kind well meaning men triggering me (including on occasion the one I married) I wouldn't want a male Dr or nurse and nor would I stay on a mixed sex ward. Dc2 was meant to be an elective but she had other ideas. They had agreed that she'd be delivered by a team of women but obviously at 3am all bets were off. The relief I felt on meeting all females was so immense as to be undescribable.

I won't be voting SNP or Green whilst they have such contempt for the lived experiences of women like me.

Well I think that's a decision for professionals. As I'm not a doctor or a psychiatrist I'm not going to presume what s best in the medical treatment of people. Why would you rather they didn't transition @ElephantOfRisk?

[quote WouldBeGood]@vivariumvivariumsvivaria yes. I’m interested in the “why?” too.

It’s a pretty strange thing for a Scottish government to be so obsessed with.[/quote]
Are the obsessed or are we?

@Dinosauratemydaffodils I'm sorry that happened to you. Sending you my very best wishes.

@alicesfavouritepen

Well I think that's a decision for professionals. As I'm not a doctor or a psychiatrist I'm not going to presume what s best in the medical treatment of people. Why would you rather they didn't transition *@ElephantOfRisk*?

Because it's not a solution.

@ElephantOfRisk tell that to the people for whom it is a solution.

It's not a solution.

The solution is for people to understand that you can't change sex. The solution is for them to feel happy in the body they have because no-one is "born in the wrong body" , The solution is not to just create more boxes to shove people in, it's to understand that women and girls can like "male" things and Men and boys can like "female" things.

It's to understand that it's okay to be gay or bi or straight.

None of the conventions really matter but people need to have any segregation required done by biological sex. Because that is what is safer for women and girls and what they have fought for. If men want to campaign for safer places for men then they are free to do that.

While I do agree that at a fundamental level you can't change sex I think you are, again, hugely oversimplifying. It's not about boys liking girls things or wanting long hair.

Your solution is for them just to feel happy in the body they have. Jesus, if only they had thought of that eh? 🤦🏻‍♀️

Thankfully medical professionals recognise the complexity of the situation and for some trans people I'm sure counselling will be enough. For others, probably not.

There you go again . You seem to think you are some authority on this. What exact qualifications do you have on this @alicesfavouritepen.

And yes the solution is for them to be happy in the body they have because anything else is a mental health issue and you don't resolve mental health issues with chopping off parts of peoples bodies or giving them hormone treatments to alter their physicality. You just don't. That is not a solution.

As a Scottish female, I can't say I give a crap. Doesn't worry me, doesn't concern me. People can chose the service they wish to use. There's a lot of support out there for female victims of assault to pick from. If we don't like one service, we don't go to it.

Authority? Me? Absolutely none. It's you who is confidently suggesting 'solutions'. My suggestion is leaving it to actual medical professionals to work with people who are actually in that situation.

Think you might be projecting a bit there about who it is that thinks they are some sort of authority.

Lol, you really think so? Well i'm not getting into a tit for tat with you again, i had enough of that last night as did many other posters.

Well, tbh you confidently saying, without any medical qualification or expertise, what should be happening kind of does suggest that you think you are an authority.

If you don't have a return point that actually contributes to the discussion then you really don't continually have to announce that you will no longer be engaging with me. It's becoming a bit of a pattern. Just don't engage. Now that's simple.

Yes, I am in Scotland and I am not happy at all about the direction of travel. It's really highlighted how weak our political system is, and how weak our MSPs are, how poor a democracy we have and how much harm extremist lobbyists can get away with in such a weak system.

All the local (non-catholic) primary schools here have done away with single-sex loos. Fine for P1-P4 age I think, but not after that. I know quite a few primary age girls who won't use the loo at school because they don't want to share with boys.

I'm also very concerned about some of the material that children are being exposed to at school, and, for example the Scot Gov's brilliant idea to do a survey of children ask, non-anonymously, whether 14 year old children had anal sex. Imagine having to answer that you'd been raped sitting at a school computer. Shocking.

Unfortunately many of the medical professionals aren't to be trusted, with diagnosis of dysphoria plus treatment being decided in a very short time frame. The staff walking out of GIDS because they know what is happening is wrong and they've been powerless to stop it is a reflection of the culture. A quick Google of Sonia Appleby is a good start for anyone interested. Also the break it down for me thread on the feminist board.

Clearly a combination of peer pressure, social media, surgeons advertising their surgery on Tik Tok, away from parental eyes, has caused a mass social contagion. Along with schools actively affirming kids identities without parental discussion. A huge safeguarding issue.

And the losers are our kids. One only needs to take a look at the Reddit detransitioners boards to see the devastation caused by not employing robust assessment and watchful waiting. Damaged bodies, poor health, infertility. Who would really want that for their kids?

Thing is, those pushing for trans rights don't care about those people. They are seen as necessary collateral.

For anyone who wants to learn more, cast your eyes over this short film. It's about 45 mins. Trigger warning, it's disturbing, it's harrowing, it's desperately upsetting. But if we want to try and change things, it's worth understanding the extent of the problem.

I’m in my early 50s and I think that my generation of women haven’t explained well enough to younger women just how hard we had to fight for the rights that seem to be taken for granted by so many today.

An example,
As a child, I remember the swimming baths in Calder Street in Govanhill (NS constituency)
Changing room doors hanging off, mixed areas for changing around the pool, lack of privacy, always feeling scared.
A variety of unsavoury men hanging around.
A general feeling that as a young girl you had no rights and no one particularly bothered about your safety.

It was only in 1986 with the advent of ChildLine and Esther Ranzen’s campaigning that child abuse was discussed publicly.
That feeling of fear stayed with me all through my childhood, teens to adulthood for good reason which I won’t discuss here.

For the woman who is First Minister of Scotland to tell me that my fears are ‘not valid’ is totally shameful.

I am not transphobic.
I will not give up safe spaces for women.

I am not transphobic.
I will not give up safe spaces for women.

This.

@Rheopecticfluid

I am not transphobic. I will not give up safe spaces for women.

This.

Yes to this

I've just had a quick look at the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act. As an example, if you give a book which some people would call "anti-trans" to another person, or send someone an "anti-trans" text you could find yourself and your house being searched for said books, the books and eg your mobile can be seized and disposed of (eg burned) on the order of a court, and you can be sentenced to up to 7 years in prison.
www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2021/14/contents

Eggsplanation that is pretty grim. The case of Marion Miller highlights that. The crime being, trying a ribbon to a fence. In suffragette colours.

Absolute insanity.

This is beginning to feel like a country no-one wants to go to on holiday in case they have a bit too much to drink, have a heated discussion with someone in the pub and end up in a Scottish jail for 5 years.

@Eggsplanation

This is beginning to feel like a country no-one wants to go to on holiday in case they have a bit too much to drink, have a heated discussion with someone in the pub and end up in a Scottish jail for 5 years.

💯 this.