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Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Are women in Scotland aware of how bad things have got?

457 replies

Leafstamp · 03/02/2022 19:15

I hang out on the Feminism board a lot, and I know not all MNetters care for that section. Which is fine. But I am continually appalled at how bad things are for women in Scotland - compared to England.

For example, this, from Feminism thread:

www.spiked-online.com/2022/02/01/the-thought-police-are-here/

To briefly summarise:

  • Mridul was born male
  • Mridul is legally male with no GRC
  • Mridul is the CEO of Edinburgh Rape crisis
  • Mridul claims women who want female only rape crisis services are bigoted and should 'reframe their trauma'
  • The CEO of a domestic violence charity Nicola Murray stopped referring women to Mridul's rape crisis service due to Mridul's misogyny
  • Mridul reported Nicola Murray to the police for committing a hate crime
  • The police actually visited Nicola Murray to question her thinking

Please can any not-particularly-feminist women share how you feel about this?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 04/02/2022 13:13

The thing that interests me is WHY are SNP so focussed on trans issues? We have equality in law for everyone. Trans people are safe in Scotland. The gender services are a shit show, but that is because of a workforce issue - they can't retain staff and I expect that the combination of the Bell case findings of "seek recourse in civil court" and a near total lack of peer reviewed evidence that transitioning alleviates distress in the long term won't help the issue of attracting staff to work in Sandyford.

SNP is a single party issue. So, why on earth have they got a heap of civil servants working on gender and not on anything relating to independence?

Money or sex or power, place your bets...

www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19879846.snp-government-paying-700k-a--year-civil-servants-team-update-independence-prospectus/

alicesfavouritepen · 04/02/2022 13:23

*SNP is a single party issue. So, why on earth have they got a heap of civil servants working on gender and not on anything relating to independence?

Money or sex or power, place your bets...

www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19879846.snp-government-paying-700k-a--year-civil-servants-team-update-independence-prospectus/*

Did you maybe post the wrong link or am I reading it incorrectly? I read this as a team of civil servants working on independence not gender? Is there another link?

To be honest I don't think they are particularly obsessed with gender as such I just think because it's controversial stance they take it gets a lot of focus.

SceneDrama · 04/02/2022 13:27

I'd say it's not necessarily a 'complex' issue but it does add a layer of complexity to my life. My DD came home from High school last year saying somebody new had started at their school, I asked whether it was a boy or a girl and I could sense the atmosphere change. It was a combination of me:
a) realising as soon as the question came out of my mouth, that this could be deemed to be a 'controversial' question - why on earth is that of interest to anyone, anywhere - why is it important? Duh Mum you're so transphobic etc...
b) I could visibly see my daughter recalibrating her thoughts to not instinctively answer me with girl or boy because she' s had it drummed into her that it's wrong to assume someone's gender identity' and she obviously knew that this person did not present themselves as a boy or a girl or there was at least a question mark over it.

I supressed my frustration when she said 'she didn't know' and said 'well what sex do you think they are?' impressing upon her that I know they may choose to present as another 'gender'. But she was cross at me even though she really does know the difference and the importance of that difference in certain situations and circumstances. She knew their sex but thought it was better, for some reason, to make out that she didn't know, or didn't care (which I don't believe!)

The name didn't give any clues but in the past 6 months the same child has changed their name once and then changed back to their original name and has just changed their name again. My DD says everyone just accepts that they are quite a troubled individual and that they just go along with whatever they say they are but know that they'll probably change their mind again. They are, of course, pansexual which you probably would be if you are exploring all options. But the school is cool and supportive (and there's quite a bit of apologising going on when some teachers haven't had the latest update and misgender/misname them) and the pupils are all good too.

DD and I have had some good chats though. She's asked me what I would do if I brought this person home and I said, I'd ask them what they wanted to eat? What subjects they like, do they have pets etc...It's not the individual that's the issue, it's the swirling, obfuscating, totalitarian, divisive notion of identity politics and gender stereotyping that steers and influences all our lives that's the problem.

Oh, and the child is so obviously a young female human that currently feels more comfortable identifying as a young male human. And I want to give them a big hug (but obviously won't).

And I know this is probably not specific to Scotland but I sense that Scottish women are going to have a harder decision to make at the ballot box when the options are so bloody limited.

alicesfavouritepen · 04/02/2022 13:30

And I know this is probably not specific to Scotland but I sense that Scottish women are going to have a harder decision to make at the ballot box when the options are so bloody limited.

Our options are the same at the ballot box surely. All the main parties pretty much are TWAW except the Tories I think.

ElephantOfRisk · 04/02/2022 13:31

Are schools off today?

Waitwhat23 · 04/02/2022 13:32

@alicesfavouritepen

Oh yes *@Waitwhat23* I forgot about that. Can you remember her username?

That does raise interesting questions although it is, of course, if I remember correctly, an entirely one sided account of an experience that is not their own. The young person might be truly and devastatingly miserable. Did social services not get involved at one point? Do we own our children's identity to the extent that we can impose suffering on them? Age is a factor here of course but I'd like to look at that thread again.

Your choice of wording is interesting. A school isn't capable of transitioning a child. The child is transitioning and the school are supporting. It's a school not a trans factory.

I believe that her username is rogdmum.

'Socially transitioning' is a term used in the Government document. It's not my wording. If you disagree with the wording, you might like to take it up with the Government.

alicesfavouritepen · 04/02/2022 13:34

@Waitwhat23 it's not the term 'socially transitioning' I have a problem with. It's you suggesting that the school are doing it to the child rather than supporting them while they do it.

alicesfavouritepen · 04/02/2022 13:34

And thank you for the username!

Waitwhat23 · 04/02/2022 13:44

Given the School are doing so against medical advice, I think we'll have to agree to disagree tbh.

alicesfavouritepen · 04/02/2022 13:56

Well I haven't had the chance yet to find rogdmum's thread and so I'm not yet sure what you mean by medical advice. I'm also not entirely sure what the school could be doing other than referring to the child by their preferred name and pronouns.

Happy to agree to disagree.

CanIPleaseHaveOne · 04/02/2022 14:00

[quote alicesfavouritepen]@CanIPleaseHaveOne

If it is as simple as that then why all the issues? Why the numerous threads? Why all the angst?

Also it's far from just an SNP issue. Labour take a very similar stance as do many centre or centre left governments and political parties across the Western world.

It might be simple to you, me and countless others on threads like this but failure to recognise the reality of the situation does nobody any favours.
[/quote]
It is a simple matter of basic biology made falsely complicated by dishonest players who are aggresive, use intimidation to shut down (obvious) questions, use social media/police/politicians, and the threat of nasty atention to manipulate, and make us believe that it is complicated.

Why all the angst?
Because it is clearly very abusive, and as always with such matters will affect the most vunerable among us. The angst is because we bloody care.

CanIPleaseHaveOne · 04/02/2022 14:01

@alicesfavouritepen

failure to recognise the reality of the situation does nobody any favours - how very true that.

alicesfavouritepen · 04/02/2022 14:06

It is a simple matter of basic biology made falsely complicated by dishonest players who are aggresive, use intimidation to shut down (obvious) questions, use social media/police/politicians, and the threat of nasty atention to manipulate, and make us believe that it is complicated.

I completely disagree.

And also starting from the position that everyone who doesn't agree with you is dishonest, aggressive and intimidating is a bit problematic/shortsighted.

alicesfavouritepen · 04/02/2022 14:11

[quote CanIPleaseHaveOne]@alicesfavouritepen

failure to recognise the reality of the situation does nobody any favours - how very true that.[/quote]
I get that you think you've made a smashing point here because you think I don't understand biology but the reality is that transpeople do exist. The reality is that transpeople have shared our spaces for years. The reality is that we can't dial back the explosion of gender non conforming people and whatever the biological truth or reality is our social landscape and our lived reality is now forever changed and quite complex. We will not win this argument if we do not accept and acknowledge that.

crosstalk · 04/02/2022 14:32

@beastlyslumber

I think you are slightly overegging the pudding that you are afraid of going to hospital to be faced by male nurses and male patients. That is nothing new. There are still mixed wards all over the UK for want of staff. I've been treated by some kindly and empathetic male doctors, nurses and surgeons. I don't know if you can request in Scotland not to be treated by a male or have a single sex ward (if it's not ICU). This is obviously different for a rape victim. And if you are found guilty of a "thought crime" are you likely to go to prison? All I'm saying is that there are profound issues in self ID, refuges, rape crisis centres, sports, the use of language to say nothing of data affecting medical and legal statistics, but panic is not the answer.

rogdmum · 04/02/2022 14:33

@alicesfavouritepen

Well I haven't had the chance yet to find rogdmum's thread and so I'm not yet sure what you mean by medical advice. I'm also not entirely sure what the school could be doing other than referring to the child by their preferred name and pronouns.

Happy to agree to disagree.

This is me. Yes, our daughter’s school first supported her social transition to a boy at school without or knowledge, then continued to do so against clinical advice and eventually reported us to social services. Social services agreed with the clinical advice we’d received and said the school was creating division. We submitted a SAR to the school and what came back was jaw dropping. We are now in the middle of a formal complaint with the school so I’m not posting additional details on Mumsnet at the moment.
alicesfavouritepen · 04/02/2022 14:39

Thank you @rogdmum for replying. I remember being quite shocked reading about your situation before.

Feel free not to answer, I appreciate you are a person with a family and not a means for the rest of us to work out our own issues, but was it a GP who issued the clinical advice or a psychologist or other specialist of some kind? Do you want the school not to use your child's preferred pronouns? Do you use them? It must be a very difficult situation for you all.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 04/02/2022 14:41

There has always been non conforming people, especially teens. The difference now is those pushing gender ideology and queer theory are telling them their non conformity of sex role stereotypes means they are somehow the wrong sex and their bodies need fixing to match their feelings.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 04/02/2022 15:09

Good luck, @rogdmum.

And also, bloody hell.

mapleleavesreturn · 04/02/2022 15:24

Good luck @rogdmum fingers crossed for a good outcome for you and your family.

And alice she's already said she doesn't want to disclose more details.

alicesfavouritepen · 04/02/2022 15:29

@mapleleavesreturn just noticed that and fair enough.

A difficult situation for her but also for her child. Further proof of the complexity of it all.

WouldBeGood · 04/02/2022 15:36

@Whatsnewpussyhat

There has always been non conforming people, especially teens. The difference now is those pushing gender ideology and queer theory are telling them their non conformity of sex role stereotypes means they are somehow the wrong sex and their bodies need fixing to match their feelings.
This.

I was a child of the eighties and find all the gender conformity stuff insane.

There are two sexes. That’s simple. How you dress, act, whatever, has nothing to do with that.

alicesfavouritepen · 04/02/2022 15:38

Sure @WouldBeGood unless you are a person who is so repulsed by their own genitalia that it makes them suicidal.

Simple for you but not for everyone.

ElephantOfRisk · 04/02/2022 15:40

The solution to a mental health problem is not hormones and cutting of your genitals.

WouldBeGood · 04/02/2022 15:44

It’s not about body dysmorphia though, in many cases.

It’s worth reading up on properly. Many of the activists are quite happy with their genitalia, hence why most keep it.

In any event, one cannot change sex.