Are women in Scotland aware of how bad things have got?

[Leafstamp]

I hang out on the Feminism board a lot, and I know not all MNetters care for that section. Which is fine. But I am continually appalled at how bad things are for women in Scotland - compared to England.

For example, this, from Feminism thread:

www.spiked-online.com/2022/02/01/the-thought-police-are-here/

To briefly summarise:

• Mridul was born male

• Mridul is legally male with no GRC

• Mridul is the CEO of Edinburgh Rape crisis

• Mridul claims women who want female only rape crisis services are bigoted and should 'reframe their trauma'

• The CEO of a domestic violence charity Nicola Murray stopped referring women to Mridul's rape crisis service due to Mridul's misogyny

• Mridul reported Nicola Murray to the police for committing a hate crime

• The police actually visited Nicola Murray to question her thinking

Please can any not-particularly-feminist women share how you feel about this?

@WouldBeGood

I think people generally think Hayley from Corrie, live and let live.

Without knowing that most people calling themselves trans have no surgery and remain fully intact men.

The AGP thing is also really disturbing, and maybe those saying it’s not an issue are not aware of this. It seems to be a thing amongst some of the most vocal TRAs.

Absolutely this. The vast majority of my friendship group think exactly this.

How do we find out what's being taught in schools in edinburgh?

We were at Porty and a - very very clearly- biological MAN came out of the water and my six year old said something about the man swimming then stopped himself and said 'but why do I assume he's a man?'

That comment can only have come from school.

This was CLEARLY a man. My son is only six years old so I didn't push to much as to why he said that but I'm not happy about it

@sparklefarts you could phone the school maybe. I'd be very surprised if the school had planted that seed but you never know. It's a fair enough question to ask. I know that a lot of kids in my school say phrases like this often but they are much older. They mostly say it in jest but a not insignificant amount do tend to think that way. Could it be a playground thing? Does he access YouTube or play any online games or anything?

@sparklefarts

How do we find out what's being taught in schools in edinburgh?

We were at Porty and a - very very clearly- biological MAN came out of the water and my six year old said something about the man swimming then stopped himself and said 'but why do I assume he's a man?'

That comment can only have come from school.

This was CLEARLY a man. My son is only six years old so I didn't push to much as to why he said that but I'm not happy about it

Initially, I'd have a look at the school's website and social media for clues. Check their Equality policy lists sex as a protected characteristic (use Ctrl +F function for 'sex' and 'gender')

Then, as a PP said, contact the school and ask them to provide the resources they are using to teach about gender identity.

Some really useful info here: safeschoolsallianceuk.net/schools-resources-and-policies/

[quote alicesfavouritepen]@sparklefarts you could phone the school maybe. I'd be very surprised if the school had planted that seed but you never know. It's a fair enough question to ask. I know that a lot of kids in my school say phrases like this often but they are much older. They mostly say it in jest but a not insignificant amount do tend to think that way. Could it be a playground thing? Does he access YouTube or play any online games or anything? [/quote]
I'd bet money that school have planted the seed.

@Leafstamp that's interesting. What makes you think that? Do you work in a school?

@alicesfavouritepen it's well known that teaching unions, PSHE providers etc are utterly captured by gender identity theory and are indoctrinating children.

There are weekly, if not daily, posts on the MN Feminism board and info elsewhere from parents who are challenging schools on this. I've seen numerous examples of resources that are problematic. I don't work in a school but I know a number of people who do.

[quote Leafstamp]@alicesfavouritepen it's well known that teaching unions, PSHE providers etc are utterly captured by gender identity theory and are indoctrinating children.

There are weekly, if not daily, posts on the MN Feminism board and info elsewhere from parents who are challenging schools on this. I've seen numerous examples of resources that are problematic. I don't work in a school but I know a number of people who do.[/quote]
I am a teacher and I've never read such nonsense in all my life.

I feel my rights have been taken away from me. I have to censor myself on a daily basis. There are fewer and fewer women's toilets so going out is becoming more difficult. I can't do my job properly because it would mean discussing sex/gender openly. I have to fill in forms that have no option to tick 'female'. I'm terrified of having to go to hospital because of the male nurses and male patients who have access to females all the time. I'm scared to complain and speak up because a prison sentence could easily mean being put into a cell with a male rapist.

@Leafstamp I teach in a high school so appreciate that it may be different but we certainly aren't 'captured by gender identity theory'. Schools are just microcosms of normal life. I've yet to meet a person who wants to indoctrinate a kid into anything. A fair few female teachers I know are gender critical. There are many gender critical teachers on here. We don't have some big PSHE provider we do these materials in house. We buy in some materials of course but I've never seen anything promoting trans rights never mind suggesting that we should all be taught that biological sex doesn't matter. It is our duty to support trans kids not to promote trans rights. I appreciate that some schools, high schools generally, are pretty woke and champion LGBTQI rights with gusto but I can assure you that these are few and far between. Catholic schools for example still teach our young people that to be gay is sinful and that God doesn't recognise gay marriage for that reason.

Are there a small but increasing number of pupils who are identifying as transgender? Yes. They don't, in my experience, really want it shouted from the rooftops and are supported in this privately. They are just kids who are struggling and they're not trying to make some point.

Your post doesn't reflect my daily reality but I would be interested to hear from any primary school colleagues who may paint a different picture of what 6 year olds are being taught.

@StarryEyeSurprise it's a bit worrying that you are dismiss other parents' and teachers' concerns as nonsense.

But I'm glad if you've not seen any evidence of children being taught inaccurate and confusing, and sometimes non-age appropriate content. That is, at least, reassuring it's not visibly happening in the school you work at.

@alicesfavouritepen

I'd agree that schools are pretty much microcosms of normal life - and what we're saying on this thread is that 'normal life' has some very worrying trends around women's rights, free speech etc etc. So of course there are going to be instances of these problems in schools.

And, of course, there will be gender critical teachers.

And of course, children who are exploring confused over their identity (gender, sexual, religious, whatever) should be supported.

I'm happy to somewhat agree to disagree on it all. I don't have time and it would not be appropriate to go into the detail of what I have seen and heard, but if I did then I feel confident that you and Starry would not be being quite so dismissive.

Ah, I've just realised that you don't live in Scotland. Where are you based? Were you referring to the curriculum/ teaching unions within another country?
Health and wellbeing should, of course, be reflected in all lessons, however we refer to specific health and wellbeing lessons as RSHP here. It's not letting me add a link but if you Google 'RSHP Scotland' , you can have a look at all of the lessons, starting from early level.

Let me know how you get on.

I apologise if I'm coming across as dismissive but I do think that it's important that I point out that your version of events is not at all what I see and experience every day. It's very easy for people to overreact based on what they think is happening.

It could be, of course, that this indoctrination of young people is happening in other schools and that's why I would really welcome the views of other teachers on this. I completely appreciate that schools are all different and I only have the experience of my own and those in which friends and ex colleagues work.

@Leafstamp

I hang out on the Feminism board a lot, and I know not all MNetters care for that section. Which is fine. But I am continually appalled at how bad things are for women in Scotland - compared to England.

For example, this, from Feminism thread:

www.spiked-online.com/2022/02/01/the-thought-police-are-here/

To briefly summarise:

• Mridul was born male

• Mridul is legally male with no GRC

• Mridul is the CEO of Edinburgh Rape crisis

• Mridul claims women who want female only rape crisis services are bigoted and should 'reframe their trauma'

• The CEO of a domestic violence charity Nicola Murray stopped referring women to Mridul's rape crisis service due to Mridul's misogyny

• Mridul reported Nicola Murray to the police for committing a hate crime

• The police actually visited Nicola Murray to question her thinking

Please can any not-particularly-feminist women share how you feel about this?

Absolutely disgusted.

@Leafstamp there's also another Scottish Government document that covers how we should be supporting transgender young people that you might find helpful as well. If you just google Scottish government supporting transgender you people it should come up.

I have some knowledge of the Scottish curriculum and the transgender support document and believe both to be potentially problematic. Appreciate that others may not agree.

If anyone is worried, I suggest finding out more from DC school, and using the information here as background:

sex-matters.org/posts/publications/boys-and-girls-and-the-equality-act-guidance-for-schools-scotland/

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2021/08/17/watch-our-spokeswoman-talk-about-scottish-trans-guidance-for-schools/

What do you find problematic in the Scottish curriculum?

@Leafstamp when you say you have 'some knowledge' do you mean just from the very one sided websites you've linked or do you mean from any other source at all?

I'm not really sure what you hoped to achieve from this thread. Did you want to educate us all?

I am politically homeless. I'll never vote SNP again due to their determined erosion of women's rights. Patrick Harvie of the Scottish Greens is openly contemptuous of women and the party as a whole voted against traumatised rape survivors being able to request a female examiner. Scottish Labour is determined to label women fighting for their rights by the slur TERF (a slur laden with sexual violence) and stand by election candidates posting images of themselves spraying SNP MP Joanna Cherry, with a bottle of Cillit Bang, with the phrase "Bang and the Terf is gone" as 'a poorly-worded meme put on Twitter'. The same Joanna Cherry who received credible rape threats from a member of her own party, which the First Minister has yet to condemn. The Scottish Lib Dems are fully TWAW and happy to tell women with GC views (a protected belief) that their values obviously don't align so not to bother joining the party.

Women are being disenfranchised.

Are of the situation, not sure I would agree with how you frame it.

There have been problems in services for women around sexual violence and domestic violence for a long time, that have nothing to do with the current trans “debate”.

There are currently women self excluding from rape crisis services because they are mixed sex. Edinburgh Rape Crisis offer no single sex services. Rape Crisis and domestic violence services across the country are losing funding because they are not 'inclusive' enough. This is a direct consequence of the current ideological driven push to erode women's rights.

@Waitwhat23

I am politically homeless. I'll never vote SNP again due to their determined erosion of women's rights. Patrick Harvie of the Scottish Greens is openly contemptuous of women and the party as a whole voted against traumatised rape survivors being able to request a female examiner. Scottish Labour is determined to label women fighting for their rights by the slur TERF (a slur laden with sexual violence) and stand by election candidates posting images of themselves spraying SNP MP Joanna Cherry, with a bottle of Cillit Bang, with the phrase "Bang and the Terf is gone" as 'a poorly-worded meme put on Twitter'. The same Joanna Cherry who received credible rape threats from a member of her own party, which the First Minister has yet to condemn. The Scottish Lib Dems are fully TWAW and happy to tell women with GC views (a protected belief) that their values obviously don't align so not to bother joining the party.

Women are being disenfranchised.

I think the only non TWAW party are the Tories. They might recognise a woman is a woman but they sure as hell will attack her in different ways. Financial mostly. I also am not that sure that they will be able to maintain that stance going forward. They will be able to hold out for a few more years maybe.

It's a sorry state of affairs that there is no room for actual conversation here and everyone is so unwilling to see both sides.

@StarryEyeSurprise I'm fairly sure you've been made aware of the experiences of a Scottish mum on here whose child is being socially transitioned by the School they attend, against medical advice - I believe the poster in question directed you to her website and Twitter account.

Oh yes @Waitwhat23 I forgot about that. Can you remember her username?

That does raise interesting questions although it is, of course, if I remember correctly, an entirely one sided account of an experience that is not their own. The young person might be truly and devastatingly miserable. Did social services not get involved at one point? Do we own our children's identity to the extent that we can impose suffering on them? Age is a factor here of course but I'd like to look at that thread again.

Your choice of wording is interesting. A school isn't capable of transitioning a child. The child is transitioning and the school are supporting. It's a school not a trans factory.