Tieribly angry wee fannies fannying about with the tiers

[dancemom]

Things moved quickly so I just started a new one ...

Would also bother reading my earlier posts on the topic @florafoxtrot.
It's an incredibly difficult issue I don't necessarily agree with the legislation but can see countries which have used strong deterrents the people smugglers have reduced massively saving countless lives as they no longer attempt dangerous crossings (e.g Australia which I think the UK has modelled this partly on).

I have no idea what the solution is but the current loss of life by sea or suffocation in lorries which is increasingly is horrific!

The point made was about the legislation causing this attitude I was pointing out this attitude and behaviour has been around a lot longer than one piece of legislation and has become more "acceptable" since Farage.
Feel free for a trip to the South English coastal towns if you don't believe me.

Thanks @florafoxtrot that's a very clear and helpful explanation. The Home Office have shown increasing disdain for the plight of immigrants recently. We're on a horrible trajectory.

@Scottishskifun even if the Home Office legislate on the basis of shit stirred up by Farage et al and the racists who came before him then that's still the fault of the Home Office. Surely you can see that?

I also wonder if tougher legislation has saved countless lives or if these poor souls have just died and suffered and risked their lives elsewhere.

As always I don’t think there is a reason for your aggression or attack. And I did “bother” to read your posts. In particular those where you completely disregard and shut down any debate from certain posters.

It is my opinion the force majeure provisions wouldn’t apply here. If your view is different then that’s fine.

I do agree with you that the RNLI will always save those in distress as it is in accordance with custom and the UN Convention of the Sea, however is the UK government seeking to impose legislation which criminalises this. Yes. Do I think this is excessive and wrong. Yes.

However I don’t think there is evidence to suggest that treating refugees badly makes them less likely to come.

www.freemovement.org.uk/does-the-policy-of-deterring-asylum-seekers-actually-work/

Would love to visit a southern English coastal village. It’s a beautiful part of the world. Currently our circumstances don’t allow.

My anger is with people who continued to vote for a UK government who clearly whipped up this type of feeling for their own ends.

@forfucksakenett there is always going to be those idiots sadly no I don't think it's as a result of the home office at a point in time they held these beliefs and targeted legal migrants from Europe as well often seen with anti Polish, anti Romanian and anti Bulgarian rhetoric as well. It sadly has been going on a long time.

@florafoxtrot There is no aggression just simply pointing out the RNLI would not be prosecuted and would never be stopped from saving lives at sea under maritime law. Appreciate that its the media causing a storm with headlines about RNLI volunteers potentially facing prison but without reading the legislation in detail (including the clauses)
or even the media seeking clarification on it. Will probably find after this storm there will be ammendments to it.
Part of many UK or even EU legislation is that many aspects are dependent on the person reading it and until their is a test case at the high courts there is always a bit of ambiguity in them. There is also the fact that most UK legislation starts at the high water tide mark unless an inshore waters specific legislation (which is 12 nautical miles) or offshore legislation which is 12 nautical miles plus to transboundary lines.

It's why some laws/bylaws cannot be enforced by the police much to the amusement of some of the law students at my old university who used to sit in a small sailing boat on sunny days and drink beer as they counted as being past the tide mark so the local bylaw of no drinking in the area no longer counted and the pedantic cookies always had one who wasn't drinking in charge of the boat so couldn't be held under maritime law either!

Good morning. Sorry to change the debate back to boring old Covid but anyone got any idea what is being announced this week?

As a teacher, I want to know about bubbles, masks in schools etc. We were also told we would know about exams / assessments before the start of term.

For me, term starts 2 weeks tomorrow! So not long to prepare schools.

What will Scottish "normal" look like?

@Cismyfatarse

Good morning. Sorry to change the debate back to boring old Covid but anyone got any idea what is being announced this week?

As a teacher, I want to know about bubbles, masks in schools etc. We were also told we would know about exams / assessments before the start of term.

For me, term starts 2 weeks tomorrow! So not long to prepare schools.

What will Scottish "normal" look like?

I would like to know too as we're heading into school a week on Monday to get organised for next year... would be helpful to know what we're preparing for!

@Cismyfatarse it’s Tuesday 3rd she’s telling us what’s happening.

I really hope it’s not the usual cautious bollocks. It’s really clear now that there is no clinical need for this and that ongoing restrictions are disproportionate. Businesses and schools need to know what’s happening and not just short term.

I'm not following you @Scottishskifun. You don't think the Home Office determine the laws on immigration?

@forfucksakenett

I'm not following you *@Scottishskifun*. You don't think the Home Office determine the laws on immigration?

Of course the home office is responsible for the laws on immigration. You stated "even if the Home Office legislate on the basis of shit stirred up by Farage et al and the racists who came before him then that's still the fault of the Home Office. Surely you can see that?" I'm simply pointing out that they have always existed, have targeted people here legally in the past with their racist and xenophobic behaviour regardless of what the home office do! This isn't a case of they think they are suddenly justified because of a piece of a legislation they have been doing it and targetting people for years with xenophobia!

You seem to have reversed your position a bit here. Slippery.

The point was and still is that it's WM who drive legislation surrounding immigration. If that legislation suddenly falls into the racist rhetoric of Farage and his mob then of course it will add to their justification. They are powerless however beyond abuse and keyboard warrior bullshit online. It is ultimately the Home Office who actually create legislation that actually impacts lives. Of course then it is they, and not Farage and similar, who should be held accountable for this just as Starry suggested in the first place.

As a previous poster has pointed out you will literally tie yourself in knots to shut down certain posters rather than engage in actual conversations. It's so tedious.

@WouldBeGood Thanks. I find as term approaches I am becoming more and more anxious and desperately wanting normal for my pupils. Teaching in a mask to a room full of masked teenagers is difficult. It also makes it much harder to see, and deal with, all the many issues with anxiety and depression we were seeing amongst at pupils in June.

For example, one pupil was only diagnosed with severe anorexia on her return to school PE. With baggy clothes and a onesie at home, and parents busy with key worker jobs, the role of school was vital in seeing she had a problem.

We are far more than exam factories. And we must be allowed to connect properly with pupils.

No reversing at all I have stated the same throughout the behaviour of Farage and his monkeys is abhorrent but they will always find a reason to behave like this simply blaming the home office or WM isn't going to change that. They would still behave like it!
Suggest you reread my posts and I still stand by what I said I haven't tied myself in knots what so ever it's incorrect to say that the legislation proposed will prevent the RNLI from saving lives, they will always do so and have a legal duty under maritime legislation.

I will always call out posts if they are stating something which simply isn't true!
Same with stating that weddings in Scotland were allowed guests to dance at the moment!

@forfucksakenett as said to you in the past don't like my posts don't read them not exactly difficult!

Well you're a very prolific poster and an apparent expert on all topics so yes it is a bit difficult to avoid you to be honest.

And to correct you, nobody was vehemently arguing that dancing was allowed at weddings but instead stated that in their experience dancing was happening. Illegally I'm sure but still.

Scottishskifun Did you see my screenshot ? It had a QC ( who has represented in The Supreme Court and The European Court of Justice) stating that the legislation could put the RNLI volunteers in hot water ( pardon the pun). He's wrong, yeah?

And yes, the guidelines say that dancing should be restricted but I was at a wedding and everyone was dancing. As fsr as I understand, it's not illegal. There was also a member of the covid committee there. The police were not called!

You can dance outside! Did a Gay Gordon’s in the rain on Friday. Obvs not ideal but very memorable. ❤️

@StarryEyeSurprise

And yes, the guidelines say that dancing should be restricted but I was at a wedding and everyone was dancing. As fsr as I understand, it's not illegal. There was also a member of the covid committee there. The police were not called!

Well venues that go against guidance risks investigation and potential closure from EHO/licensing officer if not complying (no offence its my DHs job!) if they so choose to do it then that's their risk.

QCs are like scientists in many ways they have differing opinions until test cases in court and will take on cases based on legal wording if they so choose. For instance the recent case against a company for describing an employee as a granny in an article. A judge ruled it was discrimination, the legislation itself says age discrimination doesn't specifically state the term granny, one QC stated under definition it was the defence argued it didn't, Judge decided.

@forfucksakenett not an expert in everything and never claim to be!
My cue job of the last 5 years involves science and legislation including requirements I'm fairly up to speed with how legislation is written, which legislation takes precedent when there can be several applicable. Law about assisting in maritime emergencies if possible and reducing loss of life, in this case will always take precedent.
Also had a scientific data analysis job in the past hence know about statistics and modelling. I've had more exposure then most in my career appreciate that's not the same for all professions but it's fairly common to move quite a bit as funding, short term contracts and extensions are still common place.

Just like you are up to speed with education and developments I can only go off what teacher friends tell me!
I do speak to my DH about his job which is covid response for LA (EHO he also does events) and share a "office space" with him.
As this is mostly on covid discussions in Scotland I generally have a much better insight then most as God help anyone trying to find Scottish guidance on that website!
Not sure what pisses you off about that frankly don't care 😉

@Scottishskifun not pissed off at all. Takes a lot more than that to annoy me.

QCs are like scientists in many ways they have differing opinions until test cases in court and will take on cases based on legal wording if they so choose. For instance the recent case against a company for describing an employee as a granny in an article. A judge ruled it was discrimination, the legislation itself says age discrimination doesn't specifically state the term granny, one QC stated under definition it was the defence argued it didn't, Judge decided.

Weird though that this isn't how you expressed it in earlier posts where you just shut starry down and claimed she was just completely wrong and incapable of reading / understanding as well as you.

@forfucksakenett she stated the legislation prevented rescue of people, it doesn't neither does maritime law. No law is ever going to state that if someone is drowning you check paperwork before rescuing them that's just plainly obvious!

Think you will also find I stated in previous posts about test cases in court as well 😉

• 1,034 new cases of COVID-19 reported
• 21,046 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results
◦ 5.4% of these were positive
• 3 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive (noting that Register Offices are now generally closed at weekends)
• 62 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 422 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 4,011,060 people have received the first dose of the Covid vaccination and 3,197,899 have received their second dose

@Scottishskifun well it's not plainly obvious or else a QC wouldn't be tweeting about the potential problems with it.

[quote forfucksakenett]@Scottishskifun well it's not plainly obvious or else a QC wouldn't be tweeting about the potential problems with it.

[/quote]
Really?! You really think the RNLI or coastguard is going to ask immigration status when they get a report of someone in trouble at sea within UK waters and not respond to a shout out?! Or they are going to stop a rescue asking for a passport?!

Come on your just arguing for the sake of it! No RNLI volunteer is not going to respond to their pager about a potential casualty, no coastguard is going to say sorry wrong immigration status won't call the RNLI or ignore maritime law of rescue.

The RNLI rescue people (and dogs and often tow at trouble vessel's etc) regardless. I've lived by the sea since 18/19 have several friends in the RNLI they all respond to their pagers pretty much no matter what (book off for nights out in a rota element). I've been to weddings and the pagers have gone off and watched friends dash out (the groom, bride and best man were booked off thankfully)

Nobody is doubting the integrity of the RNLI. The point that is being made is that the proposed legislation effectively criminalises their actions. Set aside all that you know about how things work in practise. Do you really not see that interpretation?