Tieribly angry wee fannies fannying about with the tiers

[dancemom]

Things moved quickly so I just started a new one ...

i keep mulling over what to do, whether to go back to him and state my position, continue to wait for occ health to have them lay it down, ask for the HR contact details and go direct to them, keep getting signed off until he leaves in about 4 weeks or so and then deal with whoever is put in place, escalate now to bosses etc.

Initial plan was to speak to occ health but still waiting!

I'll now need to get signed off again regardless as I can't go back next week now. Anyway, enough of my personal gripes.

@ElephantOfRisk would the best first step be to go to the doctors and get signed off for a further period? They can then assess a bit how you're doing at the minute and you've got the document you need to discuss with work or indeed just send them the sign off certificate < Disclaimer I have no medical knowledge or training >

Thanks, I've been off 4 and a half months so getting signed off now just seems to be asking the receptionist. I'm worried I'll run out of sick pay but another month will leave me with a couple of weeks. Its just frustrating as I want to do work for my pay but I'm not well enough to be doing a full time job straight away and can't be expected to start picking up on the work I was doing that contributed to me being off in the first place, which is what I was told was expected it's not been touched since I went off.

No their plan makes no sense elephant and I wouldn't know what to make of those options either - except I'd make sure I wasn't setup to fail, and going back to the same work I left would feel like that to me too.

I've been talking about what could be put in place for my return for over a month now and he hummed and hawed about whether we needed occ health involvement. I didn't particularly find them useful initially and they said in their report that a return to work should be phased and could include x and y (a list of different examples) but it would be for me and the employer to agree as it's not a one size fits all. However I said I didn't mind either way when he was suggesting it. So two weeks ago he confirms that actually he'd like to it that way so that he can insure that nothing is missed - fair enough - then a week later he emails and says he's requested it through HR, and here we are a week later and nothing. Prior to the conversation with him re the work 2 weeks ago, i genuinely felt i would be okay to return in some capacity next week, now I don't but i'd really wanted to speak to occ health about what he said before arranging to be off again.

As I say it's shit and I'm not really sure what i should do. I was having some counselling and when that ended I was in a decent place and hence was talking about returning. My sessions have run out so I can't speak to her about it but she felt that actually I wasn't really ready but obviously understood why I felt pressure to return (my own, not work).

• 1,381 new cases of COVID-19 reported
• 30,788 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results
◦ 4.9% of these were positive
• 11 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive
• 55 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 381 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 4,018,503 people have received the first dose of the Covid vaccination and 3,268,887 have received their second dose

It's interesting though that in other countries there seem to be very few people who can't wear a mask. It's a bit worrying if the rates of assault of that nature are so much higher here. It would be indicative of a different, wider problem.

IME the FFP2 with nose wires pinched actually don't cause steaming up now I am used to them.

I doubt we ever hear of individual cases from other countries though. We hear about compliance on a population level, not about individuals struggling. And in some places the consequences of stepping out of line will be higher.
I find ffp2 masks comfortable enough but hotter than the blue paper ones, and I have to talk a lot all day. It's easier to use the more "gappy" ones, though clearly not as effective.

@Grellbunt

It's interesting though that in other countries there seem to be very few people who can't wear a mask. It's a bit worrying if the rates of assault of that nature are so much higher here. It would be indicative of a different, wider problem.

IME the FFP2 with nose wires pinched actually don't cause steaming up now I am used to them.

Yes, who is gathering this information for you to be able to make a comparison? Nothing like this appears in the media here so why would it be something that we could measure of compare? Most folk are sitting dealing with this without any support and just not living life as they should. For a lot of people, this isn't even something that people in their real life know. So we sit and wait while people pontificate about why it's not hard even if it is fucking useless and affecting people's mental health, lives and general wellbeing. I'm glad I don't have a young child who now thinks that this is a normal way to live. It's not and it's visibly saying that life is far from normal.

I don't suffer too much with masks (beyond the inconvenience of glasses steaming up and getting a bit winded on the school run), but the longest I ever have to wear one is about an hour and even by the end of that time they are getting uncomfortable. I can absolutely believe that people wearing them all day are suffering, and that they significantly impair communication and concentration (relevant to the 'masks in schools' debate). I also have serious doubts about the efficacy of the pieces of cloth/tissue paper masks that most of us use, and therefore whether they are even worth it. I'd love to see evidence that this is effective at controlling spread but I strongly suspect it doesn't exist.

The thing that is really making me feel despair right now is that the language used by our dear leaders is not implying that this is a time-limited 'emergency' measure for only as long as needed (as we were promised), but rather than they will be a semi-permanent feature of life from now on. Nicola sees no issue and refuses to say what conditions have to be met before we can lose the masks, and has expressly said they will be mandated by law for some time to come. I'm starting to worry that means forever. Viruses are always with us, and if it wasn't COVID (which it will be for years, if not forever, now) it would be flu or something else that we need to 'control'. Society though seems to have forgotten how to accept viruses as a part of life, and the SG is certainly showing no willingness to 'live with the virus'. Maybe I'm just a bit down today, but I don't see how we can ever ditch restrictions completely (not just masks, but constant testing and isolations) without a complete change of government, and that will never happen as long as Independence is the only issue people vote about.

It’s weird how cases don’t seem to be falling here, like they are in England, despite our stricter rules.

Not that it really matters as hospitals are clearly doing okay but it’s a bit weird.

@WouldBeGood

It’s weird how cases don’t seem to be falling here, like they are in England, despite our stricter rules.

Not that it really matters as hospitals are clearly doing okay but it’s a bit weird.

There is more immunity in England due to more people being infected in wave 1 / 2?

And the big question is- is there really that much difference in behaviour between England & Scotland? On a personal level I would say no, but obviously that's only my experience of being in both countries recently.

@WouldBeGood

It’s weird how cases don’t seem to be falling here, like they are in England, despite our stricter rules.

Not that it really matters as hospitals are clearly doing okay but it’s a bit weird.

I'd noticed the same about Stirling. We seem to just stay the same-ish so at times we've had a quarter of the level per 100k and now we are just about average when other areas far above us have dropped. It should be proportionate to population really but it just doesn't seem to work like that.

It’s almost as if the restrictions don’t make any difference

@WouldBeGood

It’s almost as if the restrictions don’t make any difference

I know eh?

Parts of Germany who were very strict on masks have actually removed the mandatory requirement to do so in many settings with the exception of on public transport where an FFP2 is required or outdoor in very crowded areas. Not sure what counts for that one gig's I suppose!

I think it's very difficult to purely look at masks and numbers for a country and equate it to that - you can also look at Sweden who have had pretty low numbers and not that many restrictions throughout!

Generally the countries which seem to have done better in Europe are those where more of the population has living space per person and outdoor lifestyles. Which is no real suprise!

@Y0uCann0tBeSer10us against delta cloth and surgical masks don't do much no they stop transfer risk if having a brief face to face conversation. Spend any longer then that in a poorly ventilated area for more then 30 mins and there is a real risk of airborne build up and no the masks will not prevent that unless FFP2 or above.
The benefit of masks for the original variant were marginal at best even last year.

I think this is why it annoys me it being in law as unless it's a proper grade one it's not doing much, doesn't offer the wearer protection nor does it stop covid! Coupled with that the fact that at least 80% of people wear them incorrectly/don't change or wash them enough and it becomes a visual safety blanket rather then offering any meaningful protection!

I don't care if people want to wear that safety blanket that's their choice but keeping it in law is pointless and it's just a token thing!

@WouldBeGood

It’s weird how cases don’t seem to be falling here, like they are in England, despite our stricter rules.

Not that it really matters as hospitals are clearly doing okay but it’s a bit weird.

I think cases are levelling off in both countries tbh - we seem to have settled at just over a thousand a day (although this may increase when schools go back and everyone is testing twice a week again). The decrease in England seems to be slowing, although in their case they have the complete loss of restrictions to kind of hold them in place. But yes, it's hard to see any impact of harsher or looser restrictions anywhere - the token restrictions left are doing nothing to stop the virus doing it's thing.

The numbers are really interesting.

It seems like the only thing that makes much of a difference is full lockdown, otherwise it's pie in the sky to think we can control a particularly easy transmissible virus by measures such as wearing a mask when you stand up at a restaurant but not when you're seated.

Absolutely. I honestly think the only point of the continued restrictions is so we don't forget "there's a pandemic on, you know" and remember to continue to listen to Nicola who will tell us what to do. There is no point to them, otherwise, and hasn't been really since the end of "full" lockdown, really, when everyone was able to move around more freely and the virus could do its stuff.

I'd be happy just signing something to say "I know there's a pandemic...I'll take that into account, thanks" if I was just allowed to get on with stuff!

And elephant. Your boss sounds especially clueless. What an arse. Hope you manage to get something sorted.

I think the continued restrictions are in place to make it easier just to up them again whenever they see fit.

And yes, he's not a bad guy I don't think. I barely know him tbh, just young, inexperienced and clueless.

@ElephantOfRisk sorry to hear your work are mucking you about. There is a section on a fit note where your gp can tick that you require a phased return and your work will have to adhere to it.
I'm in nhs and if occ health or gp advise a phased return is necessary then this is over a 4 week period. If no occ health or gp input then it's a 2week phased return. Any of these phased periods can also include annual leave to make the working week shorter.
Really hope you get it sorted out, pretty sure you don't need the added stress

The remaining restrictions seem more like political differentiation than anything tangibly effective to me. I'm for effective restrictions but as we've said all along, the data evidence for these measures short of full lockdown and vaccinations is so weak.

I can see that there's expectation management going on for the winter too.

And if the expensive FF masks are the only ones that are effective, why wasn't that communicated and prioritised to make available earlier to the most vulnerable?

The impact of restrictions is very interesting

We have family in another European country. Their schools reopened last August and have never had to close again. Their hairdressers and beauty salons were only closed in 1st lockdown in spring 2020
There's 2 main reasons they could do this. They have regional gov with lot more autonomy so they can decide locally if they need to close schools rather than the whole country
They also spend way more on healthcare so there's lot more hospital beds than we have. So they haven't had to close schools to stop healthcare being overwhelmed
But despite schools being open all year they have had very similar numbers of cases and deaths as Scotland per head of population
Makes you wonder about our school closures 🤷🏼‍♀️

that's the thing @Ladylunchalot, they are perfectly happy to put in place a phased return and one that can be flexible and last over 4 weeks. I asked him what he would think appropriate as a starting point/what is "average" but he just threw the it back to me/onto HR/Occ Health. I've suggested initially shorter days and maybe not everyday as my concentration levels can be a bit ropey, then building up to either longer or more days etc. Also suggested it would be good to be in a supporting role for others. HR asked me/him to think about stuff such as environment/location, level of management oversight, workload, relationships and then he confirmed that he'd like occ health involvement, talked about coming back to a clean sheet and and new work and then at the end threw in that nothing had happened with my previous work so I could support that. By that point i was pretty upset and could barely speak so the call ended, but he must have been aware that I was upset. They don't want to push me which is possibly because workplace stress is on my fitnote.

The ball is in their hands really but I don't want to end up unpaid because they've procrastinated/set back my recovery. So parts are good and considerate and not putting blame on them but just getting a bit annoyed that I'm just left hanging on and don't feel it's my place to dictating either. Doesn't help that I get very anxious and worked up about speaking to the GP (or indeed anyone on the phone) even though he and the staff on reception have been nothing but helpful.