Guilt Free Railing 9

[WouldBeGood]

Nine!!!

I really feel for people working in masks all day, especially in hot buildings and not much ventilation must be really uncomfortable. There are shops I'm dying to get out of to remove the silly things.

I'm sure they must do something to reduce spread but I can't ever see them becoming normal.

I'm grumpy about the change in emphasis on masks. At the last update I think it was said that beyond level 0 masks would be required "in certain situations" - and then said "like public transport and shops" and then added in "and probably schools" when asked. So from that I assumed that in most cases (school pick up, indoor but not crowded places, hospitality, private places like weddings, open air rail platforms and so on) the requirement would be dropped.

But yesterday, it just became "the mandatory wearing of face coverings will remain in place for some time to come". And then justifying that with the whole "if it is needed we should say so" stuff. So to me - either they have changed tack on that and will require masks in hospitality and all the other indoor situations, or they are keeping it open to say "actually, you don't need to wear them in all the situations you have been up to now - aren't you lucky..."

In any case, it must be hugely frustrating for those businesses trying to plan for reopening as well as anyone who wants to know where they will stand from August. I just think it would be polite of the SG to indicate what measures may be in place and any exit strategy/ time limit for dropping them. Apparently JS has announced this morning that masks may be around til Christmas - but I have no idea if that is actually true, or if that was just him making up something on the spot, or if that's based on some kind of levels being reached, or modelling or whatever...

I appreciate vulnerable people may be concerned at all the restrictions being dropped at once, but ultimately, many people have to take extra care around viruses, that could always affect some people more than the average person. If we know masks aren't required, for example, people who want others to wear masks can plan around that. To be honest, I don't think anyone vulnerable would be able to rely on masks as currently in place - so it seems a bit of a red herring that hordes of vulnerable people will feel perfectly safe to go around as normal if masks aren't dropped. I mean, the measures in place haven't stopped the current Scottish wave, which seems to be declining of its own accord, without any change in regulations or restrictions. So masks or social distancing, or not being able to go to nightclubs or soft play or school sports days or whatever are hardly the panacea they are being portrayed as being. So I'm just not sure what benefit keeping the restrictions in place is supposed to have.

Anyway, I'll now shut the fuck up about masks.

Id be happy to drop mask wearing tomorrow if people would social distance.

Well - precisely! Maintaining a bit of personal space around people you aren't related to, or friends with just seems like general good manners to me (though I think I have a bigger "space bubble" requirement than others)!

But speaking for myself, I find it much harder to hear people talking in masks (especially if there is perspex, and constant tannoy noise and whatnot in shops), so do find myself having to get closer, just to communicate. I think it's partly the muffling of the other person's speech, but also I'm much more aware of my own breath and the mask sort of rustling, which affects my own hearing. I think I just have weird ears... I try to stay as far away as I can - but I do notice myself doing it and i don't like it!

@ResilienceWanker I struggle to hear people in masks too. Between that and the steaming up of my glasses I actually find it intolerable to be anywhere just now where masks are required unless it's only for a 10 min train journey or whatever.

Happy to stay 2 metres away from people I don't know anyway.

Masks definitely muffle voices.

They must make it harder for teachers. It would be so much better if they'd vaccinate teens so masks can be binned from schools. It's just shite that kids are going into a 3rd year of covid.

I don't think a lot of folk will be rushing to have their teens vaccinated so think that masks in schools will be with us for a while sadly.

@ResilienceWanker I think we all do much more lip reading than we realise! I always feel a bit deaf when I'm swimming and have taken my contact lenses out, abs I assume it's because I can't get as much from communication that's purely sound, and doesn't include any lip reading or scanning micro expressions.

think unfortunately masks likely to remain in schools as it's only mitigation they've got for schools
Come sept school kids will be the only group where no one is vaccinated
If teenagers aren't to be vaccinated then do they continue with bubbles/isolating and have 3rd yr of disrupted education causing long term harms to children education
Or do they just let Covid spread in schools 🤷🏼‍♀️
Glad I'm not making that decision

Anyone else noted big drop in cases in under 19s over last 2 weeks

But yesterday, it just became "the mandatory wearing of face coverings will remain in place for some time to come". And then justifying that with the whole "if it is needed we should say so" stuff.

I was quite at this idea that if something’s needed it should be legally mandatory and only the bad government down south would ever disagree.

Our government takes this exact approach with almost every other public health measure. They don’t make condoms mandatory or binge drinking illegal. So it’s clearly not that horrifyingly irresponsible an approach, is it?

[quote SoMuchForSummerLove]@ResilienceWanker I think we all do much more lip reading than we realise! I always feel a bit deaf when I'm swimming and have taken my contact lenses out, abs I assume it's because I can't get as much from communication that's purely sound, and doesn't include any lip reading or scanning micro expressions.
[/quote]
I know! I hate going to unfamiliar swimming pools because I can see basically nothing without my glasses, so even struggle with the "pool this way" signs, let alone toilets and so on! And the echoey nature of them doesn't help in terms of sound projection. Mind you, I think I'm getting by on about 1.5 senses quite a lot at the moment. I can't taste very much or smell anything (thanks covid), my glasses are steamed up a lot of the time due to masks, and my hearing is a bit dodgy anyway. But getting around purely by touch may not be seen to be too acceptable either .

I don't think it will be long before she's under pressure to budge on quite a lot of things!

Even her pal Drakeford is lifting restrictions in Wales (masks to remain in certain settings) and he's been way more cautious than even NS at points!

Especially not in a swimming pool @ResilienceWanker

Given that nobody likes wearing masks I imagine teens would be quite happy to be jagged if it was a condition once your double jagged the masks can be binned.

Just another thought, masks have become available in lots of shops. Do you think they'll stop stocking them once England no longer need them?

@GoldenOmber

But yesterday, it just became "the mandatory wearing of face coverings will remain in place for some time to come". And then justifying that with the whole "if it is needed we should say so" stuff.

I was quite at this idea that if something’s needed it should be legally mandatory and only the bad government down south would ever disagree.

Our government takes this exact approach with almost every other public health measure. They don’t make condoms mandatory or binge drinking illegal. So it’s clearly not that horrifyingly irresponsible an approach, is it?

Yes, I was thinking this too. Though, to be fair, the SG has been a bit more law-happy than the rest of the UK to achieve public health aims - and indeed other aims. So things like minimum alcohol pricing (hence effectively banning bogofs etc on booze), banning smoking in pubs before the rest of the UK and so on. So while I agree there are loads of examples where they do leave it up to our own responsibility, it's definitely not the first time when they legislate to achieve the same aim.

@Lockdownbear

Given that nobody likes wearing masks I imagine teens would be quite happy to be jagged if it was a condition once your double jagged the masks can be binned.

Just another thought, masks have become available in lots of shops. Do you think they'll stop stocking them once England no longer need them?

I don't think anywhere will stop selling them, tbh. I reckon there will be enough demand for people needing them for eg public transport, healthcare, travel and so on, even in England. If we're to believe the rest of MN, everyone thinks BoJo is ridiculously reckless and no one thinks dropping them is a good idea, so anyone in the least bit sensible or caring will carry on wearing them everywhere anyway

I'm still wary about vaccinating teens. I don't disagree that they will want to take it up to avoid masks, or avoid quarantine as a contact, or be able to travel abroad or whatever - but I really dislike the "coercion" that these freedoms are only available if they are vaccinated, whereas their peers in the rest of the UK will get them "free". I know the risk from the vaccine will be tiny, but if I had agreed to vaccinate a child to allow them to access their right to education without it being disrupted, rather than for any particular benefit to them in terms of disease prevention, and they then suffered heart issues or whatever as a result, I would be .

But really you'd be vaccinating in the hope they are protected from long covid.
We know teens aren't likely to die but we know there may be a risk of long covid.

They don't seem to be gathering or publishing much data on long covid but the people I know of are under 40 and reasonably fit.

@Lockdownbear

Given that nobody likes wearing masks I imagine teens would be quite happy to be jagged if it was a condition once your double jagged the masks can be binned.

Just another thought, masks have become available in lots of shops. Do you think they'll stop stocking them once England no longer need them?

I doubt it, it looks like they'll still be compulsory on transport and in healthcare settings. I saw that TFL are saying masks are mandatory, so that's basically everyone in London still using masks very regularly still.

@Lockdownbear

But really you'd be vaccinating in the hope they are protected from long covid. We know teens aren't likely to die but we know there may be a risk of long covid.

They don't seem to be gathering or publishing much data on long covid but the people I know of are under 40 and reasonably fit.

Well, if that is the case, they need to start gathering that data! If the vaccine prevents long covid, then that's great, and a definite potential benefit for the vaccin-ee. It seems logical to me that it may have that effect...assuming the vaccine stops people getting covid in the first place, which it looks like it does to some extent (at least when double jagged, for the variants currently in play). But they should "sell" it based on that with data to prove it, and not "have the vaccine and you won't have to wear masks in school".

There is a big study on long Covid in children and it has shown that many symptoms are the same im those who tested positive or negative, so there’s more going on than just infection with Covid in children. It was a blind study.

Respected paediatricians in the uk are not supportive of vaccinating teens or children and are also of the view the bubbles and isolations need to stop. There’s such a tiny tiny risk to children and many have already been exposed so the view is that vaccinating them is not appropriate. No need for masks in school either: the vulnerable are vaccinated

Vulnerable kids aren't vaccinated though.

I thought the jury (ie JCVI) was still out on vaccinating young teens, there's not been a decision on that yet has there?

They don't currently know if being vaccinated stops long covid as the condition can occur in serious cases, mild cases or even asystomatic cases. It's currently too early to say.

Many specialists and research now points towards it being an autoimmune condition basically the body is in overdrive and causes a friendly fire situation and then switches to attacking itself.
Many sufferers (50-60%) report improvements in symptoms after a vaccine as its thought the immune system switches back to then making covid antibodies with the vaccine but for some the relief is short term.

It's too early to to say for definite and larger scale studies are required.
Unfortunately I can tell you that the more I try and push my body to normal things the further backwards it goes!

I've just had my second jab so hoping that it might help ease some symptoms as I can tell you having a fever and headache all day every day gets very draining and debilitating!

It sounds absolutely awful ski