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Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Thread 7 - No pitch forks or Pom Poms - Scottish political shenanigans

999 replies

TheShadowyFeminist · 06/04/2021 15:46

New 🧵

OP posts:
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forfucksakenett · 22/04/2021 17:40

Not an accepted catch all. The dominant UK identity.

Of course you will find Yorkshireman and scousers etc who will identify with their region only but many if not most will consider themselves English as well as Scouse or Brummie or whatever.

riverrunning · 22/04/2021 18:57

So as an 'English' person in Scotland who didn't move here from England and who hasn't lived there or identified there for a really long time somehow automatically part of the hegemonic culture? Well that's really othering @forfucksakenett

forfucksakenett · 22/04/2021 19:06

No you're a product of a hegemonic culture. Just as we all are.

WouldBeGood · 22/04/2021 19:20

Is it appropriate to go to live in a country and then tell the people there how to vote?

WouldBeGood · 22/04/2021 19:20

Genuine question, I’ve been musing.

LexMitior · 22/04/2021 19:49

@SempreSuiGeneris

Not sure your average Yorkshire, Lancastrian, Cornish, Brummie, Londoner (North or South or did you actually mean Essex or Kent) etc etc etc would agree with Englishness as an accepted catch all.
I don't think most people think about their perceived identity every day - it would be very odd if you did. Still odder to talk about it in conversation or base your political thought around it, as ,maybe the Frankland letter demonstrates.

Scottish nationalism is always looking for some "other" to define itself by. No different from every other form of nationalism. A patriot loves their country, a nationalist hates everyone else's.

StarryEyeSurprise · 22/04/2021 19:51

Pathetic.

LexMitior · 22/04/2021 19:52

@CirclesWithinCircles

You weren't wrong about the SNP - look at this genius who wants to in Holyrood. Who would vote for someone of this outstanding calibre?

www.heraldscotland.com/news/19253067.snp-msp-claims-border-england-create-jobs/

LexMitior · 22/04/2021 19:57

@StarryEyeSurprise

Pathetic.
You don't like Georges Clemenceau?
RedactedTaeFeck · 22/04/2021 20:05

So what's the thoughts on NS not doing Question time?

forfucksakenett · 22/04/2021 20:39

No people on the right side of privilege don't think about their identity every day. They don't have to.

Lots do.

forfucksakenett · 22/04/2021 20:40

@WouldBeGood

Is it appropriate to go to live in a country and then tell the people there how to vote?
Eh?
forfucksakenett · 22/04/2021 20:52

@LexMitior the Frankland letter? What's this?

Bytheloch · 22/04/2021 21:57

@RedactedTaeFeck

So what's the thoughts on NS not doing Question time?
Indeed🧐

Absence from Leaders’ line up is very odd, surely it would’ve been prioritised? It’s certainly not just a diary clash...

LexMitior · 22/04/2021 21:58

@forfucksakenett

No people on the right side of privilege don't think about their identity every day. They don't have to.

Lots do.

Privilege is in the eye of the beholder, isn't it? You can't really tell very much about anyone just by looking at them. People are very much more complex than that, or at least, ime, they prefer to have that complexity rather than be labelled you are this, I am that.

Politics has the capacity to be very divisive, particularly if combined with national identity. My point is that nationalism is probably the most futile because it doesn't really promise anything real, but is an uplifting fantasy. Good politics is tempered by reality....

Maduixa · 22/04/2021 22:10

@CirclesWithinCircles

I'm formally Greenland.

Madiuxa Absolutely disagree with this, as someone who left Scotland (and the UK, if you like) in the wake of the idiotic Brexit mayhem. Of course a hypothetical independent Scotland could apply to join the EU, but this isn't necessary - Scotland only needs to rejoin the European Single Market, as Northern Ireland has been allowed to do. The Alba Party has come out today in pursuit of this - and I, as a Scot who has lived abroad (in the EU) for years applaud them for having common sense and for caring about Scottish people - which I am increasingly sure that the mainstream Scottish/UK parties do not.

What muddled up madness is this? Thats unworkable, for many reasons.

It would also prevent Scots from benefitting from the many human and fundamental rights that go along with EU membership, and EU funding for poorer areas, which Scotland has benefitted from significantly in the past. Agriculture wouldn't be included, so anything produced by Scottish farmers would be at a severe disadvantage to those within the EU. As an example, Scottish farmers would have to produce meat to exacting EU standards, and transport it there, without benefitting from the many financial incentives the EU gives to EU farmers.

I also don't think you have a clue about how EU competition law works. There are many pieces of Scottish legislation now that don't comply with EU single market rules because they breach the competition law articles 101 and 102 TFEU, so the Scottish Government would have to remove them in order to be EU-law compliant. There would probably have to be a widespread review of Scottish legislation.

The whole purpose of the single market is to open up the EU to competition from all member states, as competition benefits consumers. It is certainly not there to enable non-member states to trade freely in the EU as a market without a reciprocal gain for EU member states.

I honestly don't think you have the faintest clue what you're trying to talk about here. Ah yes but Norway you will cry. Norway doesn't want to join the EU and its few companies which export to the EU are penalised in ways which make their goods more expensive to produce. But Norway still has to comply with EU law. Norway also has to make a significant financial contribution to the furtherance of fundamental EU rights and values throughout the EU in return for limited EU market access. Generally, we talk about 3 out of the 4 EFTA member states as having this limited access to the EU in return for substantial payments and compliance with most EU law - Liechtenstein, Iceland and Norway.

I can't see Scotland wishing to sign up to follow not only the ECHR but the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights and EU competition law the minute it leaves the UK, as that is a much more restrictive regime to follow and a very expensive one.

The new Hate Crime bill would have to be scrapped for one thing, and minimum alcohol pricing (which hasn't been very effective anyway) but the way in which local authorities are set up and the control they have over the property market through the licensing system would also have to be changed, as well as the way in which contracts are handed out.

Nonsense. EFTA is a route to the EU, used by many current EU members (and one ex-member- the UK). YOU have no idea what you're talking about.
WouldBeGood · 22/04/2021 22:46

Oh dear god, has anyone seen SNP MSP Emma Harper on the question of the border with England?

Embarrassing. Apparently it will create jobs...

Thick as mince.

forfucksakenett · 22/04/2021 22:59

@LexMitior ehhhh no privilege is very much not in the eye of the beholder.

CirclesWithinCircles · 22/04/2021 23:17

Maduixa Nonsense. EFTA is a route to the EU, used by many current EU members (and one ex-member- the UK). YOU have no idea what you're talking about.

Christ. She hath spoke.

CirclesWithinCircles · 22/04/2021 23:21

[quote LexMitior]@CirclesWithinCircles

You weren't wrong about the SNP - look at this genius who wants to in Holyrood. Who would vote for someone of this outstanding calibre?

www.heraldscotland.com/news/19253067.snp-msp-claims-border-england-create-jobs/[/quote]
I do wonder how much of a brain drain to England there has been when I read this sort of thing.

I was only disappointed not to read from her that Special and Unique Scottish Circumstances applied, and it would be a fairy unicorn border with a teleport into the EU included.

SempreSuiGeneris · 23/04/2021 09:07

Not prepared to accept Scotland has a monopoly on idiotic politicians. Ireland, NI, UK and EU are all thoroughly unhappy with the NIP which they all agreed to. Bad enough to negotiate the nonsense in the first place but worse still to actually implement it.

StatisticallyChallenged · 23/04/2021 09:23

Idiotic politicians are far from a uniquely scottish concept.

We're just particularly talented at creating or selecting them

SempreSuiGeneris · 23/04/2021 09:31

For my fellow Roddy Dunlop QC fans. He's articulating the problem I was alluding to yesterday.

"This is good example of (misguided, IMHO) ‘guidance’- not enforceable law. If you’re allowed to travel to Scotland, you’re allowed to use exactly the same facilities here as the citizens of Scotland.Unlawful discrimination otherwise, which ScotGov cannot possibly be suggesting."

WouldBeGood · 23/04/2021 09:50

@SempreSuiGeneris I saw that. Love it.

Cannot believe she’s seriously told the English to stay out of cafes 😱

SempreSuiGeneris · 23/04/2021 10:12

And even exporting them for everyone else to promote and elect stats. #Govelove anyone.