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Thread 7 - No pitch forks or Pom Poms - Scottish political shenanigans

999 replies

TheShadowyFeminist · 06/04/2021 15:46

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LexMitior · 29/04/2021 13:42

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happygolurkey · 29/04/2021 14:00

the post I was responding to said 'could any of them tell us unionists'.
They are referring to themselves as 'us unionists' so I don't know how you can object to how I responded?

Scottishskifun · 29/04/2021 14:07

@happygolurkey

the post I was responding to said 'could any of them tell us unionists'. They are referring to themselves as 'us unionists' so I don't know how you can object to how I responded?
So you take 1 poster and basically do what you have been complaining about of sweeping statements stating "nice to see unionists sticking together" then call me a gas lighter and shameful when called out on the same behaviour would you prefer I use the phrase pot calling kettle black......
happygolurkey · 29/04/2021 14:07

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happygolurkey · 29/04/2021 14:17

stating "nice to see unionists sticking together"

where did I state this? You are just making stuff up off the top of your head - another example of what I've been reading from other posters over the last few pages. Again you are proving my point - blaming me for other people using odious Nazi language - which you came on and defended.

happygolurkey · 29/04/2021 14:25

Poster posts Nazi rhetoric. Another poster calls it out and is reported and deleted. funny old world.

happygolurkey · 29/04/2021 14:29

your original post stated unionists

ok, next time a poster says 'can someone tell us unionists' I'll be sure and say no I can't do that as that would be generalising

WouldBeGood · 29/04/2021 14:32

So, aside from all that, independence is clearly going to lead to hardship in the short to medium term at least.

Does anyone think it’s worth it, and why?

Scottishskifun · 29/04/2021 14:38

There was a auto type in my post of together, I also apologised for not knowing the nazi phrase and would not have defended that phrase but yet you still throw accusations of gas lighting against me, I have simply pointed out that you have made sweeping statements the other way which you complain about and then get nasty when pointed out.

Yes I think it's a good idea to recognise there are different groups within all sides of the debate in posts and not make sweeping generalisations. It goes both ways.

happygolurkey · 29/04/2021 14:50

get nasty

yes I'm so nasty - not like the lovely people who throw Nazi rhetoric around.

WouldBeGood · 29/04/2021 14:59

@happygolurkey what do you make of the report?

happygolurkey · 29/04/2021 16:22

Well as well as raising the deficit concerns IFS's David Phillips, also said: "That doesn't mean Scotland can't afford to be independent. Scotland's a relatively rich country.'
And the report's based on the right now, not taking into account what levers a Government could take in the future or of all the other many variables between now and any referendum and post referendum. Plus all countries have huge deficit's don't they?
But I think for me one of the biggest things is the fear of the cost of not going independent. I was always a Labour supporter but I don't think they are ever going to get back in at Westminster ever again. I honestly can see that happening. And where will we be then when the Tories sell off our NHS and carry out all the rest of the nasty things they have in store?
I'm not claiming to have scrutinised the report in depth though but I definitely will

RedactedTaeFeck · 29/04/2021 16:34

NHS in Scotland is already under the control of the SNP and has been for many years. They are also privatising parts of it and in addition, at least twice, hasn't allocated the extra funding given by WM for the NHS to the NHS.

There is much more chance of Labour getting into Westminster than there is getting into Holyrood (unfortunately).

WouldBeGood · 29/04/2021 16:58

I do agree @happygolurkey that the studies show that at some point in the long term future it might be possible that Scotland thrives independently.

However, in my view the cost of that is too great just now. Austerity as we have had will be as nothing compared to the years ahead to try to reach that goal and for me it’s just not worth it. It will badly affect my children as well.

I’m no fan of Johnson and the despicable Tory UK government. But remain seems to me much more sensible at this point in time.

happygolurkey · 29/04/2021 17:08

I obviously realise NHS Scotland is under the control of SNP. But that's at risk under this post Brexit power grab. Under the Internal Market Act, UK ministers can unilaterally subject Scotland’s NHS to so-called “market access” principles. They're imposing this against Scotland's will.
While Labour admittedly have become a disaster in Scotland - it's a totally different scenario with Westminster. Just cannot see Labour getting in again. Starmer's rating is lower than Boris Johnson. Boris 'let the bodies pile high' Johnson!!

forfucksakenett · 29/04/2021 17:23

@happygolurkey

I obviously realise NHS Scotland is under the control of SNP. But that's at risk under this post Brexit power grab. Under the Internal Market Act, UK ministers can unilaterally subject Scotland’s NHS to so-called “market access” principles. They're imposing this against Scotland's will. While Labour admittedly have become a disaster in Scotland - it's a totally different scenario with Westminster. Just cannot see Labour getting in again. Starmer's rating is lower than Boris Johnson. Boris 'let the bodies pile high' Johnson!!
The whole thing is horrifying. Yet even with all this. People in Scotland will still vote Tory. It's utterly baffling.
Graffitiqueen · 29/04/2021 17:55

The austerity proposed in the growth commission is horrifying. Yet people will still vote SNP. It's utterly baffling.

Talking about the growth commission I see NatWest have reiterated that they would have to move their headquarters out of Scotland post Indy. I guess the GC got that right!

WouldBeGood · 29/04/2021 17:55

@forfucksakenett what do you think about the report?

WouldBeGood · 29/04/2021 18:00

I think a lot of financial services and businesses will move. As will staff which will make the problem worse with less tax being paid.

Reality bites.

forfucksakenett · 29/04/2021 18:20

I haven't read it yet. Not had a minute. I think I'll try tonight.

forfucksakenett · 29/04/2021 18:29

@annabelindajane

For the blood and soil independence seekers could any of them tell us unionists exactly how much austerity they think inflicting on society is acceptable ?
I cannot believe that you wrote this Shock
Scottishskifun · 29/04/2021 18:46

For me the key parts of the report were

Structural deficits of the scale of Scotland’s, and particularly Wales’ and Northern Ireland’s, would not be sustainable on an ongoing basis.

“They would need to be tackled by some combination of spending cuts and/or tax rises, in the absence of a rapid increase in economic growth post-independence, which is probably unlikely.

“Indeed, recent research suggests disruptions to and increases in the cost of trade would likely adversely affect the economy, at least in the short-to-medium term.”

David Phillips, an associate director at the IFS, said Scotland’s on-paper deficit “reflects significantly higher levels of public spending per capita in Scotland”.

“The higher levels of public spending are in effect paid for by fiscal transfers from the South of England.”

The IFS said that “none of this means that Scotland cannot afford to be independent, nor that there aren’t a range of opportunities for better policy to improve performance and better address Scottish needs and preferences”.

But it warned: “Saying you are going to boost economic performance through better policy making is, of course, easier than designing and implementing the necessary policies."

I don't know how much of a bigger flag can be raised which highlights the fact that in the short to medium term (aka the next 10 years) the economy would be hit hard and there would cuts and tax rises required!

happygolurkey · 29/04/2021 19:04

@WouldBeGood

I do agree *@happygolurkey* that the studies show that at some point in the long term future it might be possible that Scotland thrives independently.

However, in my view the cost of that is too great just now. Austerity as we have had will be as nothing compared to the years ahead to try to reach that goal and for me it’s just not worth it. It will badly affect my children as well.

I’m no fan of Johnson and the despicable Tory UK government. But remain seems to me much more sensible at this point in time.

that's totally reasonable. For me though, it's a bit like the roof of your house being knackered. You've got this other outlay and that other one, then there's this to be paid for, that to do and on and on. It's just the wrong time to have to shell out for that caving in roof. At some point though your going to have to bite the bullet and get that roof fixed, with all the upheaval and cost it entails - or your fucked - every other problem becomes immaterial. In other words, there is something structurally wrong in how power is organised and until that is addressed everything else is just tinkering. I also read more optimism into David Phillips comments that Scotland is relatively rich and could thrive. There are other optimistic studies too. Not everyone feels the same though, I understand that
StarryEyeSurprise · 29/04/2021 19:49

Of course, the country which gained independence from the UK during he last 100 years (The Republic of Ireland) demonstrates a healthy surplus.

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