Thread 7 - No pitch forks or Pom Poms - Scottish political shenanigans

[TheShadowyFeminist]

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Was going to correct some of the BS on the ECHR from Circles but busy watching the football.

The Supreme Court web pages have some decent summaries for anyone interested.

@WouldBeGood

It’s already been explained on Scotsnet that the EU doesn’t deal with legalities until a challenge is brought. It’s not a case of legislation being scrutinised by the EU before it’s made. There does seem to be a lot of misunderstanding on this.

I'm suggesting that the Scottish Government should scrutinise its own legislation to check that its compatible with EU law. If it is doing so, it seems to be on a bit of a wing and a prayer at times. Less important now than after Brexit to some extent.

@CirclesWithinCircles - you say a lot of very sensible points regarding the readiness of Scotland for independence and being a future member of EU.

I doubt that anyone who works in international trade would seriously propose Scotland joining the Single Market on the basis of Northern Ireland. That is a hellish arrangement which is not finished.

Honestly it would be very good if someone actually listed the criteria for EU membership now (and I don't mean the deal Britain had) and see where Scotland comes. It is nowhere near. Maybe in ten years if now and worked hard to bring its constitution, banking, customs agencies, taxes, public spending ratios, public finances, debts into good shape. That wouldn't come over night and there is nothing certain about any of it.

Not so much jam today, or jam tomorrow, but jam infinitely delayed until a set of criteria acceptable to the EU was met.

You also raise implicitly an important point about GB, which is that this is reserved to Westminster for trade purposes. I can see why the Alba party are pushing for it now. In a few years the alignment and patterns of trade will have changed away significantly from EU standards for Britain and that will not be easily reversed.

This clip does neither Sturgeon nor Ross any favours & Sarwar again comes across as the grown up in the room.

Link to tweet

I don't know who is advising Sturgeon but her aggression isn't coming across as confidence or commanding or whatever it is she thinks she's displaying. I've been struggling to put my finger on what it is about her delivery during this campaign that's bothering me & I think it's that the arguments she's trying to generate between her & the Tories, so she can keep using that 'but Westminster' stick to deflect from her own failures - it just doesn't wash. It's not credible & it really does come across like the petty squabbling of children. The jabbing finger isn't a great look either.

I used to fall for this years ago. I thought she was capable, had a good command of her brief & handled herself well. Instead it's the pivots, obfuscation, picking fights off the back of insignificant comments & trying to grand stand with it. Once you see her worn & well used stock tactics, it's hard to un-see.

She is coming across really badly (and I'm aware i don't like her so my opinion is not unbiased) even if you watch without the sound on, the aggressive head bobbing and pointing is terrible, Ross sitting back like a naughty boy that has just pushed his Mum's buttons and Sarwar like the Dad who has just been sitting reading the paper and been dragged into an argument unexpectedly.

I think she's not a genius - in fact the recent debacle with Salmond shows how much better he is. I mean, he's talking about negotiating with Westminster to leave. He knows she can't do that but he can. And Ian Blackford may be in Westminster but he has led the SNP to a dead end where they are ignored. Salmond grew that party in Westminster, he grew the independence movement. He got very close. What has she done compared to that except rattle the same swords he made and told her how?

I would think it takes a Westminster MP to unpick this and of course he's right and he knows the system and plays it very well (David Davies anyone?) - yes maybe Nicola Sturgeon could rally the troops but she's a very poor tactician compared to Salmond who is an utter professional and in the end knows that the negotiations would be very tough and go for years.

Oh, dear. That’s most unedifying. What is she thinking?’!

Ffs how unprofessional are Sturgeon and Ross?

The more I see Anas the more I like him though. I am so over vitriolic politics.

I was on that call last night. She really did come across so badly. The comments where really mixed though which was good. Support from students is minimal and she refused to step in with the current college strikes which did not go down well. The host was shocking though. He brought up independence when the debate wasn't even going in that direction

Lol good assessment of that debate @RedactedTaeFeck

Much as I hate Nippy, she's not wrong about Anas. He does sit on the fence and I'm not sure how I feel about that or if that tactic will work.

Also agree with @CirclesWithinCircles re: SNP supporters

See, I’m with you @titsintiers. I like that and wouldn’t call it being on the fence to be uninterested in talking about constitutional claptrap that’s been done to death.

I thought saying that he needed to decide which side he was on was very divisive. Does there need to be sides? It's just the pattern of saying you are either my friend or my enemy and there are no other possibilities that continues to divide people.

Does my nut in.

Just catching up on the Patricia Gibson gossip. Her and Kenny appear to be yet another pair of total SNP operators. Surprised any of that lot have time for anything other than "domestic" politics. Just goes to show if you put yourself out there ....

Yeah. I see it as the opposite of fence sitting. Total distraction from the issue of the day to even be thinking about Indy or future Scotland only EU relationship atm.

That letter writer chap is a campaigner and member of an organisation called English Scots for yes.

A curious concept.

@WouldBeGood

That letter writer chap is a campaigner and member of an organisation called English Scots for yes.

A curious concept.

It's implying that somehow being Scottish make you a better person than those English folks (which I find quite racist in itself). Back to the divisiveness.

English Scots for Yes remind me rather of all the overzealous bible bashing late converts. If you're brought up with it you tend to spend most of your life apologising for it cos y'know.

That's interesting. The concept of English Scots for Yes doesn't at all suggest to me that being Scottish is better. Far from it, these people are, quite rightly and proudly, proclaiming their Englishness too. I think instead it points out to many that people want independence not because of nationalistic stereotypes but because the idea makes sense to them irrespective of nationality.

@ScotlandUnited

Lol good assessment of that debate *@RedactedTaeFeck*

Much as I hate Nippy, she's not wrong about Anas. He does sit on the fence and I'm not sure how I feel about that or if that tactic will work.

Also agree with @CirclesWithinCircles re: SNP supporters

I find it quite ironic that you feel that SNP supporters are dim and uninformed yet you resort to childish name calling.

'I hate wee nippy' is hardly an informed and well thought out argument is it?

Makes absolutely no sense to my English DH even after over 20 years here. The concept of banding together with fellow English exiles in Scotland at all, let alone exclusively SNP supporting ones, would be pretty alien thinking for him tbh.

@SempreSuiGeneris

Makes absolutely no sense to my English DH even after over 20 years here. The concept of banding together with fellow English exiles in Scotland at all, let alone exclusively SNP supporting ones, would be pretty alien thinking for him tbh.

Well that's totally fair enough for your DH but clearly it's enjoyable for some. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I see lots of public services not reopening in Glasgow, despite the promises of giveaways in the election.

@WouldBeGood

That letter writer chap is a campaigner and member of an organisation called English Scots for yes.

A curious concept.

Why is this a curious concept? 🤔

What exactly is an "English Scot". If 3 months residence makes you fully a Scot and 3 months absence no longer a Scot. If my DH is an English Scot was I a Scots English when we lived in England? What were we when we lived outside the UK altogether? Neither Scot nor English are identities according to "civic nationalism" so it's a puzzle.

Would we all be in separate Glee clubs should we get the Yes bug. Maybe that's why the SNP have so many pass the partner capers?

Of course I'm simplifying massively cos neither of us are actually just Scottish or English or even UK and our DC are even more crazy mixed up just like most of the UK population.

Exactly sempre, why make the distinction?