[quote forfucksakenett]@TheShadowyFeminist I don't think the impact on women is of little worth. I'm not entirely sure where I've said that or why you would think that?
I have absolutely no idea what the impact on women will be in real terms. [/quote]
We've already had lengthy discussions on the fact you believe TWAW if they say so, particularly when they do any number of things that, in your eyes, makes them a woman. The distress & harm to women doesn't feature when you say you are happy to include TW in female spaces. Those spaces are numerous but specifically cause harm & distress where women are most vulnerable - prisons, hospital wards, communal residential settings, refuges, changing rooms and yes, even toilets.
The shift in what western countries are willing to sacrifice for the sake of males who don't want to be considered male is ever growing & disproportionately impacts women in a number of areas. The minute you say 'it's fine here' that's used as a wedge everywhere else. It's the reason Scottish Trans Alliance targeted vulnerable women incarcerated in prison - to make those arguments for male inclusion everywhere else easier to argue.
When you support self ID, it's a bit of a cop out to say you only mean the nice decent don't want any hassle TW who have had full surgery/transition & not those dodgy blokes over there who would never take advantage of the safeguarding loopholes that self ID creates. If the gender ID umbrella includes males of a variety of 'inner genders' who also are a risk to women & girls, it's incumbent on those advocating for it to explain what safeguarding they will include to mitigate that wider umbrella's risks. Because so far, the most ive seen is 'but men don't need self ID to rape women' & 'it's not someone trans you need to worry about, it's men/rapists' & absolutely zero effort made to actually think about what self ID actually means in terms of the harms that will disproportionately affect women & girls.
When sturgeon says trans rights don't threaten her as a women, what she means is, she doesn't care about the women who will be impacted. There's already a young teenage girl in Scotland who was gang raped & refused the guarantee of a female only rape counsellor or female only support space, by Rape Crisis Scotland. That's the impact of self ID. You still buying into that? I won't ever buy that this is the only way to manage this issue - remove women's access or right to female only provision for the sake of the tiny number of males who don't want to be seen or thought of as male.