Thread 7 - No pitch forks or Pom Poms - Scottish political shenanigans

[TheShadowyFeminist]

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The greens are odd. They could potentially be a really good coalition partner in a government of whatever flavour, with nice environmental policies (which aren't actually that different to the main parties, but going a bit further) and some slightly wacky but potentially interesting other policies that could presumably be taken forward but toned down by another government partner. But then they go and spoil it all by pinning their flag inexplicably and unnecessarily to independence which cuts their potential vote to no more than half of the electorate. And the extreme trains thing too, which is obviously a bit of a vote splitter - even among their own MSPs. It's like they WANT to self sabotage their core/ USP policies.

Also, PH has started giving me the same visceral reaction that DH gets when he sees Michael Gove on telly. And that's not a good reaction.

Extreme TRANS. Though extreme trains sound fun.

I’d vote for extreme trains

That's how deprived we are of any fun, that extreme trains sound fun

Apparently AS has said Holyrood is full of numpties. Couldn't agree more.

Anas Sarwar is on BBC Radio Scotland right now - listeners' phone in.

He's talking RN on the gender id bill.

Extreme trains? Shows my autocorrect hasn't been fully mumsnet enabled

Salmond really knows how to win friends, doesn't he. Numpties

Also, it should be illegal to have 2 party leaders with the same initials.

Sarwar sounding on it

*except on women I think but I missed most of that bit. He did say he wasn’t for “gender neutral” toilets in school.

Extreme trains sounds fun. We could tour the world looking at all the weird and wonderful trains...we'd be out of our council areas and everything

My postal vote arrived today, I want to vote for Labour. It's (obviously) where my conscious lies but I really want to maximise support away from IndyRef so I still don't know. #firsttimetoryvoter

What is your constituency like voting wise?

@LizzieMacQueen I’d quite like to vote Labour as I’m impressed with lots of their policies and lack of bitching. I was kind of hoping that might see them having a bit of a resurgence??

Anyone else not able to get access to the SNP manifesto? I keep getting asking to sign up when I click on 'read 2021 manifesto' - is this how both Greens & SNP are operating nowadays? Making it inaccessible to see the details of their manifesto (especially when it comes to their position on trans rights - that section on the greens is 'for members only').

When does Labour's manifesto come out? Anyone know?

Found this -

Link to exert from manifesto on GRA

They're going to push through GRA reform.

😡

So anyone voting for Sturgeon/SNP will be taken as supporting this.

We will work with women ...

We will ensure these changes do not not affect the rights or protections women currently have under the equalities act...

How does that equate to pushing through the GRA?

Surely more accurate would me they are looking to make changes in consultation?

There's a colicky link to the full manifesto on the SNP thread on Twitter.

I didn't have to sign up to anything just clicked it.

🤣 @ colicky link. Sums up scottish politics!

Colicky sums up my feelings on the snp to a degree!

🙈 another potentially Freudian auto correct!

Lizzie the beauty of our electoral system is that you can maximise your anti-Indy stance with your constituency vote (by voting for whichever candidate is most likely to beat the SNP) and then neutralise your stance on the List.

So eg if you vote tactical Tory in Edinburgh Central to defeat Angus Robertson and then List vote Labour. This works because if the Tories fail to hold Edinburgh Central all other things being equal they would get a List seat anyway. So actually you are only ever really choosing between Labour and SNP, even having voted Tory.

We will work with women ...

They've zero track record of doing that - repeatedly invoking the Scotgov funded orgs who don't consult with women & who are all pro TWAW nothing to see here.

Zero Tolerance ran an article in the Daily Record featuring a TW who got off on the ' domestic abuse chic' image used in the article (the silhouetted photograph used - see below pic). This was the same TW who is the Rainbow Greens co-convener who has been exposed as a nappy wearing fetishist featured here

Link to wings article

This is what SNP means when they say they'll consult with women - they'll refer to the same narrow clique utterly captured by the activists - Zero Tolerance can't even do a reverse ferret when their PR screws up & promotes someone who thinks being a domestic abuse victim is a 'look' they consider worth appropriating. That's the extent of the capture of so-called women's support orgs funded by Scotgov.

FWS are still trying to push back against the SNP position that includes males like the one above, in the category of women.

The SNP are fully on board with this now. The ' we will ensure changes won't affect women's rights' bit falls apart when you know that the FWS case had the government confirm that they can change the meaning of terms as they wish on their legislation so can materially impact the EA2010 exceptions without even touching the EA2010 itself.

Basically, the whole section on GRA is disingenuous to be claiming, yet again, that they'll consult women when they've ignored concerns & allowed them to be framed as 'transphobia', and feel perfectly entitled to frame legislation however trans rights orgs dictate, which is a detriment to women & women's legal rights in the EA2010, just because they can (without even attempting to be transparent about it).

They have had the analysis report submitted prior to the election so know exactly what the GRA draft bill consultation says. I'm pretty sure the LGBT orgs will have been included in that while the likes of MBM, FWS are denied the same involvement. Engender will definitely be party to it along with the rest of the Scotgov funded orgs too.

Link to MBM thread

The SNP are completely untrustworthy when it comes to treating women as stakeholders in this GRA reform push, as they've demonstrated repeatedly. And their manifesto is more of the same. Voting for SNP is voting to allow them to continue the dismantling of women's rights.

That wings article is possibly the most horrific thing I've ever read. It also makes me detest PH even more. Genuinely horrifying 🤮

I know a handful of trans people. Mostly through work. They are not that God awful person.

Food for thought definitely though. Vile.

You posted so I read it.
Work with "Trans people" and "women"? If TWAW and TMAM then these 2 terms are meaningless as is any consultation? If TWAnotW and TMAnotM then there is no need for discussion given the Equality Act Protections are accepted.

FWIW 2 of my 3 DC were delivered by men and neither my 18 year old DD nor I had any objection to her staying on a mixed sex ward with her fellow too sick to be a threat to anyone patients. Half the nursing staff were also male. However imv it is entirely appropriate to have single sex protections because not all women feel this way and in most cases have justifiable reasons for feeling as they do - Women's Refuges being the classic example.

Gay and straight men are also affected by domestic abuse. Why do women owe any special responsibility towards transwomen that they don't owe to abused gay and straight men?

Sempre that's exactly it.

Some people are fine with male HCP, mixed sex spaces when vulnerable/in a state of undress/sleeping/unconscious etc. No one has any issue that those people can & do make choices they're comfortable with & no one wants to limit those choices either. But we all know that there are others who, for perfectly reasonable & justifiable reasons, prefer/want/need female only when they feel vulnerable/are in a state of undress/sleeping/unconscious etc. and this is being framed as 'exclusionary' 'discriminatory' 'bigoted' 'transphobic' etc.

Taking away the choice of women who want/need/prefer the option of single sex spaces/services/provision isn't progressive at all. But the SNP are determined to make this happen in the name of 'trans rights' & 'progression'. It's abhorrent IMO.

I suppose the answer to that would be that some transwomen believe they are women. Some accept they are transwomen and will never cross that line.

Similarly gay men and male victims of domestic abuse wouldn't seek safety in a women's refuge because they don't believe they are women whereas some transwomen do.