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Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Thread 7 - No pitch forks or Pom Poms - Scottish political shenanigans

999 replies

TheShadowyFeminist · 06/04/2021 15:46

New 🧵

OP posts:
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TheShadowyFeminist · 06/04/2021 15:52

Previous 🧵

Thread 6

OP posts:
Cismyfatarse · 06/04/2021 15:53

Great title.

ResilienceWanker · 06/04/2021 15:56

Fab! Thank you!

sessell · 06/04/2021 15:57

Shenanigans is perfect. I'm here for them!

noego · 06/04/2021 15:59
Brew
Blurberoo · 06/04/2021 16:08

Love it!

TheShadowyFeminist · 06/04/2021 16:09

This spectator article is one I think is worth discussing, as it touches on one of the things I have grave concerns over - the HCB.

One of the worst parts of the HCB is the fact it criminalises 'hate speech' within a private dwelling, so could be family vs family in terms of court cases etc. But coupled with the 'Health and Wellbeing Census’ being rolled out in schools, this article suggests that this is another way to capture information that now could be deemed criminal as a result of the HCB.

I'm not sure my DD has had anything on this yet, but the potential for her to describe me or things I've said within my own home, as 'hateful' (we've discussed the trans stuff - I may have said something she or anyone who is evangelical on trans rights as 'offensive') just horrifies me.

OP posts:
DivGirl · 06/04/2021 16:19

Thank you for the new thread! ☕️

titsintiers · 06/04/2021 16:22

Thanks for the new thread. Have been enjoying everyone else's wisdom.

I don't own pom poms but could probably find a recorder somewhere?

ScotlandUnited · 06/04/2021 16:33

My DD was telling me today that her friend, who I've known since a baby, is now a non-binary person called Pip.

I confess I laughed because knowing this child as well as I do, I'm 99% sure they are not non binary but saying they are for a laugh (they do have a habit of taking the pee out of people at times)

But under the new HCB my DD could report me for that couldn't she? Even though I have non-binary colleagues who I accept, work well with, and like.

TheShadowyFeminist · 06/04/2021 16:47

My DD has 2 friends, one NB, the other previously TM, now a girl again but I think is also now going by they/them. I find the whole NB stuff incredibly boring & tbh can't be arsed with it. DD doesn't take kindly to my 🙄 when the subject comes up.

I'm now wondering whether 🙄 can earn me a knock at the door...😬

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OhBuggerandArse · 06/04/2021 17:09

STV leaders debate just announced and Salmond is not invited (nor is Galloway). I think this will start backfiring at some point.

What I would really like to see is a women's policy debate with one of the Alba women like Caroline McAllister included. That would really open the curtains and shine some light on the degree of policy capture across the other parties.

TheShadowyFeminist · 06/04/2021 17:12

@OhBuggerandArse

STV leaders debate just announced and Salmond is not invited (nor is Galloway). I think this will start backfiring at some point.

What I would really like to see is a women's policy debate with one of the Alba women like Caroline McAllister included. That would really open the curtains and shine some light on the degree of policy capture across the other parties.

Yes, I think there'll come a point soon that they can't ignore them.

A women's debate is a brilliant suggestion. Caroline would be the lone opposition voice but I think she'd hold her own. Just think of all the awful policy impacts she'd be able to highlight for people who are completely oblivious.

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Blurberoo · 06/04/2021 17:20

It would be so fantastic, once the issue is out in the open there could be an actual debate and not the endless mudslinging that is going on just now! A real dialogue where a workable solution is sought and the issues actually explored rather than dismissed... it seems like an impossible dream.

SempreSuiGeneris · 06/04/2021 17:23

Hi all. I think there is a fair bit of hyperbole surrounding the HCB. Note that even the Tories are not proposing full repeal.

Aamar Anwar was interesting on Debate Night the other week and pointed to plenty of examples where the Law already steps into hearth and home. Some examples he gave were planning terrorism, domestic violence and breach of the peace. The clip is on-line but I'm not having much success tracking down a succinct article from him - I am sure at least one is out there somewhere.

Also worth bearing in mind the England already has more codified legislation in this area.

On the other related topic England is also considering GRA very similar to the Scottish proposals.

Cismyfatarse · 06/04/2021 17:26

GRA reform in England has been totally scrapped. In fact they are looking at ways of tightening up the single sex exemptions. So Scotland has plans to be a tourist destination for those who want to change their birth certificates without medical involvement (self ID).

SempreSuiGeneris · 06/04/2021 17:27

4 Alba candidates introduced Salmond each separately today for the webinar and iirc they are having their women's conference to finalise policy proposals this weekend.

forfucksakenett · 06/04/2021 17:39

@ScotlandUnited

My DD was telling me today that her friend, who I've known since a baby, is now a non-binary person called Pip.

I confess I laughed because knowing this child as well as I do, I'm 99% sure they are not non binary but saying they are for a laugh (they do have a habit of taking the pee out of people at times)

But under the new HCB my DD could report me for that couldn't she? Even though I have non-binary colleagues who I accept, work well with, and like.

No I shouldn't think so.

You are free to have an opinion and laughing isn't a hate crime.

If that really is their new name then I'd maybe ask to have your post removed as it could be outing. It wouldn't be very nice for their parent to read that.

ScotlandUnited · 06/04/2021 17:44

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forfucksakenett · 06/04/2021 17:49

@SempreSuiGeneris

Hi all. I think there is a fair bit of hyperbole surrounding the HCB. Note that even the Tories are not proposing full repeal.

Aamar Anwar was interesting on Debate Night the other week and pointed to plenty of examples where the Law already steps into hearth and home. Some examples he gave were planning terrorism, domestic violence and breach of the peace. The clip is on-line but I'm not having much success tracking down a succinct article from him - I am sure at least one is out there somewhere.

Also worth bearing in mind the England already has more codified legislation in this area.

On the other related topic England is also considering GRA very similar to the Scottish proposals.

Great post @SempreSuiGeneris ... there are aspects of it I don't agree with but a lot of the response is hyperbole.

I would assume inciting religious hatred from home could also be prosecuted. This can't be a new thing?

I am not a lawyer though and could clearly be misinterpreting subtleties surrounding the home aspect and why people get so annoyed about it.

TheShadowyFeminist · 06/04/2021 17:53

@Cismyfatarse

GRA reform in England has been totally scrapped. In fact they are looking at ways of tightening up the single sex exemptions. So Scotland has plans to be a tourist destination for those who want to change their birth certificates without medical involvement (self ID).
So far, the SNP draft bill shows how disingenuous they are in taking any concerns seriously & they've stuck rigidly to ignoring women while smearing 'concerns' as transphobic or misinformation. Their Equality impact assessment was terrible, they even quoted from a research paper claiming there was no evidence of women working in the support sector having concerns when it actually stated the opposite. And the awful 'paper' quoted that scotgov had to roll back on, which compared males claiming to be women, changing in female only space, to women who had had mastectomies.

The SNP will continue to gerrymander this issue - they've had the draft bill consultation responses analysed & buried that til after the election. They also previously committed to publishing all the responses & have since said they won't now do that. Which again raises questions over how this is being handled.

This of all the things Sturgeon has done is the one that infuriates me most. Because it's an abuse of the power she & her party has, to force through legal changes they know aren't widely supported. Coupled with their claim that TWAW is government policy when it's not even recorded anywhere when & how they reached that conclusion, this GRA bill they're going to push through is nailed on to be the final nail in women's rights in Scotland.

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Itwasjustresting · 06/04/2021 18:08

Plopping to say thanks for the new thread. And thanks everyone for the discussion - there are so few places where what’s going on in Scotland can be talked about with input from all sides and no-one being called a bigot.

Itwasjustresting · 06/04/2021 18:08

shadowy, do you think it’s as simple as NS needs to do this to keep the greens on side? Or does she truly believe?

IsurviveonCoffeeandWinein2021 · 06/04/2021 18:12

Just jumping into the new thread. Will be interesting to see if any different points are argued at the next leaders debate. Felt the bbc one was just a rehash

StatisticallyChallenged · 06/04/2021 18:14

I agree with you Shadowy. To me, legislation like the GRA/self id should be

  • properly and openly consulted on, with absolutely no risk to funding based on responses
  • clear and unambiguous in its purpose, intent and actual wording
  • subject to rigorous scrutiny from all sides
  • either a) desired by the majority of the public or b) unequivocally necessary to prevent harm to the extent that the public view essentially isn't relevant. Not saying this specifically applies to the GRA, I just mean in general sometimes governments have to implement unpopular laws for safety or similar.

So far I am utterly unconvinced that any GRA reform will meet any of these

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