Tieriffic or tierifying ... who knows!

[dancemom]

Quick title as last thread about to fill up ....

The antibody test on long covid is a bit tricky as antibodies only easily detectable for circa 6 months. There are also 2 types of "long covid".
The first I'd damage caused directly to organs etc as a result of covid this is generally found in some patients who have been very very sick and being in hospital, in ICU on ventilation etc This one is easier to track numbers of.
The second one is a post viral fatigue long covid which is a lot harder. It tends to be the people who didn't get it badly but it's also harder to pin point exact numbers partly because many people weren't tested and post viral fatigue can occur with any virus.
I am in no doubt that long covid exists but true numbers are difficult and its still not that high e.g its not a 1/10 chance.

There is research being conducted and a specialist dept set up in the Midlands who are working with patients.
But post viral fatigue is very difficult it was fobbed off by many Dr's for years as a condition. People with ME were told it was in their heads a lot of the time.

It's also not known the effect of the vaccination it will definitely stop the first type but second is a bit more unknown.

Given the higher then originally known level of asystomatic cases and that all people who have had covid are not reporting long covid it's likely to be in the lower percentage. I had post viral fatigue as a teenager from glandular fever it's not fun but until there is some proper data and research its very difficult. Also other PP are right we aren't locked down for other risk of post viral fatigue.

We all need the learn to live with this virus and whilst the fear of the unknown is scary it's just going to become integrated into life all be it at hopefully known numbers.

Also for the poster scared of mutations I would say that the virus mutates in everyone it's a virus and we already have one of the most virulent ones going.

@Perihelion

Does anyone know where the lateral flow test results for school kids are being reported? Or if they even are?

You have to log onto a website to record test results. It's not compulsory, it's time consuming, lots of people aren't bothering, even if they bother to do the test in the first place.

I am assuming the results are just rolled into the figures released each day.

@RaspberryCoulis no they're not part of the daily figures.

Lots of people are doing it and recording it. Uptake at our school is really high.

@Scottishskifun yes all viruses mutate but the scientists and the various governments throughout the world are concerned about mutations so I don't see why I wouldn't be concerned as well. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[quote forfucksakenett]@RaspberryCoulis no they're not part of the daily figures.

Lots of people are doing it and recording it. Uptake at our school is really high. [/quote]
So the point of recording them is.... ?

We're doing them weekly, not twice weekly as recommended. Not bothering uploading repeated negative results.

@RaspberryCoulis to identify as many asymptomatic cases as they can and stop those kids / teachers / caters/ nurses / doctors etc going into their work and spreading it about.

If you hit a positive then you need to book a 'normal' test which confirms it or otherwise and is counted in the daily figures.

Yeah don't upload your negative results ... that'll show em

Did is doing it twice a week as requested and we are recording the negative results each time, as far as I know all her classmates are doing it also

[quote forfucksakenett]@Scottishskifun yes all viruses mutate but the scientists and the various governments throughout the world are concerned about mutations so I don't see why I wouldn't be concerned as well. 🤷🏻‍♀️[/quote]
I'm not saying they should be ignored but it's the impression that many people seem to have that mutation strains are only potentially coming from abroad.
This simply isn't true anyone who gets covid has the potential to create another strain.
Their are some types they are more concerned about yes SA and Brazil currently but there are probably way more than this it's just not everywhere does genome sequencing. I think international travel for holidays should be controlled until greater vaccinations are done world wide but its also wrong to be scared of something coming in only when reality we can create a Glasgow strain or Skye strain here as well. We also have already created one of the most virulent strains as well. Hence the UK is on banned country list for many many countries!

@forfucksakenett

Yeah don't upload your negative results ... that'll show em

But if it's not recorded surely it doesn't make any difference. It's just to try to minimise the chances of asymptomatic people accidentally spreading covid. If they have a positive test they then stay at home until they can confirm with a pcr test.

@forfucksakenett

Yeah don't upload your negative results ... that'll show em

It's not about "showing them" anything. It's time consuming. It's a faff. It's about number 1000 on my current priority list. It's not compulsory, it's not like you have to register a negative test to be allowed into school.

@Windyone did you hear back about your appointment?

I called up today as my login details got blocked and I wanted to check I hadn't inadvertently cancelled my appointment, the woman asked if I wanted her to check for any earlier available appointments and I now have one on Monday 🙌🏼

I'm pretty sure I saw something on travelling tabby that showed numbers / positivity of lateral flow tests in various groups, including schools.

yes all viruses mutate but the scientists and the various governments throughout the world are concerned about mutations so I don't see why I wouldn't be concerned as well.

Isn't there two sides to this, though? Yes it could mutate into something more sinister, but I read something a while ago now saying that most viruses "want" to mutate into milder versions. Deadlier versions kill the host and limit transmission.

I'm not an expert at all (I'd be seriously interested to hear from people who know about this stuff) but surely this is what happened with the Spanish Flu? 100 years ago there were no vaccines etc. I understand it killed a huge amount of people, but exposure lead to natural immunity (just as exposure to virus OR vaccine is leading to immunity today) and it faded into the background. I read some recent pandemic strains have been linked to descendants of Spanish Flu, and I imagine Covid-19 will be somewhat similar for the next 100 years.

So basically... we need to learn to live with it.

I think I’m somewhere in the middle. I am a little scared of covid. I had pretty serious cancer as a young person which was such a shock (I felt very fit and healthy) that I do have worries at times of dying of things and leaving my kids without a mum. It’s not health anxiety as such as I’m not going around worried about catching things all the time, more at realism that serious illness isn’t an impossibility 😀
At the same time, I have the view from that you just don’t know what’s going to hit you next so it’s important to live your life as well as you can, make plenty of memories, don’t put off enjoying life to some point in the future when your more financially secure etc etc.
So honestly I feel somewhat schizophrenic about the whole thing. I avoid risks I don’t need to take, get my shopping delivered, meet people outside. But I meet people as much as I can and have recently started letting kids have friends to the house. I really want to go on holiday as my favourite thing to do is plan holidays. I’m happy to stay in the U.K. but I really want to go to England and I want the freedom to plan things and also to just go and do something like a day trip to Edinburgh without having to book museums/restaurants, whatever in advance.
I worry about the mental health effects of lockdown too. I have two very good friends who have gone on anti anxiety meds or anti depressants. I’ve seen the effect on my kids despite having made every effort to make this affect them as little as possible. I worry about the kids who aren’t being looked after so well and families forced to lockdown in awful flats in the middle of cities with not enough room. I don’t want lockdown to continue because I have worries. But then at the same time some people’s anxiety will get much worse if lockdown is lifted 😬.

I feel like I look at it from different angles all the time and have no idea what the best thing to do is. I think there should be less restrictions on outside mixing for sure but apart from that I’m stumped! From people I talk to, I think people are still worried about covid to an extent but also worried about lockdown effects esp on children. But the thought of a third wave and being properly locked down again is horrifying. I guess having some restrictions like on travel abroad are better than being forced into proper lockdown again.

If anyone got to the end of this rambling post well done 😂😂. Im not sure it made any sense but I don’t think my head makes any sense anymore

@winched. Surely the problem with learning to live with it is that your living with it might be my dying from it. Or vice versa. Why, when we are getting so close to being able to control it, in this country at least, through vaccination would you want to blow it at the last minute

@dancemom I’ve still not heard :( I’ve called twice but they just say it’s taking a long time to get appointments. My Dad gets out of hospital this week and he’s really vulnerable although he’s had his first jab. I’m worried that with DS going back to school and me looking after my Dad that we might still pass it to him.
I’m just disappointed that the jab was offered and actually doesn’t seem to be available after all.
It would just be nice to have some good news for once 😀. I think I need more coffee......

@winched I'm not a virologist and it's been over a decade since I did modules in human health and disease at uni but from what I remember viruses mutate to keep going.
If everyone has immunity it would die out so it mutates, if it kills every host it also dies so yes there is a part that viruses mutate to be milder but it's not always a given.

I think the concern about the SA strain is that the current vaccines aren't very effective against it. They will be studying the particular structure and trying to develop something which is effective against it but that takes a bit of time.

It makes sense to try and keep that variant out as much as possible until this is the case. But you can't protect against all mutations simply because mutations can happen anywhere and at any point.
The Brazilian variant for example occurred in an area where majority of people of people had already had covid so it mutated to survive and bypass some of the antibodies.

Basically what it means is that we probably won't have one vaccine it maybe several and they will need adapting regularly (similar to the flu vaccination) but like flu some will evade it.
It's why it can't be treated like measles outbreaks like the SG have stated on several occasions its too quick to adapt. Measles on the other hand is pretty slow.

@Windyone that's rubbish, you applied the same time I did and I've had 2 offerings 🙁

@PostieModern Surely the problem with learning to live with it is that your living with it might be my dying from it. Or vice versa. Why, when we are getting so close to being able to control it, in this country at least, through vaccination would you want to blow it at the last minute

Good question! I guess because I'm not entirely convinced that we are close to controlling it. The goalposts constantly changing (understandably), and all of the unknowns surrounding mutations and length of immunity etc. But that doesn't mean I'm in favour of blowing it all at the last minute, either. It just doesn't feel like this actually is "the last minute".

Not sure if I'm making sense, sorry. My feelings and opinions on every aspect of this pandemic seem to change / flip every day or week or month. It's exhausting. I wanted the kids off school and then I wanted them back at school, I hated masks and then I wanted unmasked people banned from shops, now I wear one only when I have to, I wanted the vaccine and then I had doubts put into my head about the vaccine, I agreed with the lockdowns and then I didn't, and then I did, and now I don't. It's completely nonsensical and I must sound like a loon  I spoke to my daughter's stepmum about it yesterday though and she said she's been feeling similar.

@Scottishskifun thank you! I agree it makes sense to try to keep the SA variation out. I'm actually fine with not being able to travel for the foreseeable (I love holidays and have family abroad) if it means we can do things like go to the gym, or work in a coffee shop etc.

[quote PostieModern]@winched. Surely the problem with learning to live with it is that your living with it might be my dying from it. Or vice versa. Why, when we are getting so close to being able to control it, in this country at least, through vaccination would you want to blow it at the last minute[/quote]
That is where I am to be honest. That being said I wish the vaccination programme would go much faster and be a lot more efficient. But I'm still quite fearful of catching covid at this stage and the potential effect on my family.

I understand that others feel differently but when it seems like the case numbers, hospital admissions, deaths are going in the right direction, then I'm OK to hang on a few more weeks and get more people vaccinated.

@PostieModern we are getting close to controlling some strains in adults but this isn't the same as controlling the virus.

Unless everyone is vaccinated (including children) AND it doesn't mutate then you are never going to control it fully. We can hope to keep numbers low and stop it spreading like wildfire but unfortunately being fully in control isn't really an option due to mutation speed.
Which means we have to learn to live with it in a as controlled way as possible. We are not going to stop it circulating in the population all together but we can and are reducing risk of serious illness.

Good post @Icannever I know several people like that, who live with a condition or have recovered, they naturally have a fear around covid.

Icannever I too am on the fence / torn.

@Scottishskifun I suppose it boils down to what you (or I) mean by 'control' the virus. I think that what I mean, and what I'll be comfortable with, is having the 9 vulnerable groups with at least one jag, effective test and trace and probably (sadly) restricting overseas travel for a bit longer. And then opening up slowly but surely