The Tierany of Tiers

[dancemom]

Teirtastic times ahead ....

@UnderHisAye
The problem is that none of the interventions have been properly assessed for effectiveness - there is constant shifting of the goalposts with nothing being allowed to fully kick in before decisions made to change it.

We still don't know where covid is mainly spreading - I still think workplaces - and a family of 5 getting covid can really skew the statistics when looking at smaller areas.

There are also unintended consequences from any rule - e.g. forbid click and collect for non-essential retain and people go to the essential shops in more numbers to get what they need; stop people being able to sit in a SD cafe - they queue outside blocking pavements and standing a good deal closer than 1m even.

I think I suggested a few weeks ago thus might happen.

NS got the messaging totally wrong (even though she is normally better than BJ).

I'm in England and think BJ has been abysmal but when he set up the roadmap, we knew where we were going. We knew what would happen in 5 weeks 10 weeks of things were OK.

It gave us a date of June and you almost think - let's not fuck this up, we are almost there.

That didn't happen in Scotland and I think you can see the consequences of that.

As I think I mentioned previously, I saw a few blatant breaches of rules on Mothers day posted on FB.

Ones in England were outside, ones in Glasgow area were large family gatherings inside.

What's going to do most damage?

Right at the very beginning they knew people would only comply with lockdown for so long. And the longer it goes on the less compliance they'd be.

Did someone not say in another thread that every other countries lockdown has still allowed for some indoor visitors?

Not seeing family for months is not natural. I mean parents to kids and grandchildren.

I go all over the place with this. I've been keeping away from scotsnet as the posts about people having hairdressers in, friends over for dinner etc just get me really angry. I understand people have had enough, but if we all did this the numbers will keep going up and we'll be stuck in lockdown forever. And seeing my adult kids not going to the pub, cinema, nightclubs as they are all shut really depresses me. I want them having a life again. At 21 they should be out getting drunk and stupid every weekend , not sitting in gaming or whatever. Its so wrong. Its them I feel sorry for, I actually don't really care about anyone my age, it's the young ones I feel for. And reading here of posters having friends round when my 20 Yr old hasn't been inside with his pals for months makes me fucking raging. But there's fuck all anyone can do. We all have to do whats right for us.
The numbers where I live are hellish, like nearly 140 per 100,000.
What the hells going on?

I just wish this virus would fuck off.

I can say for myself that I felt utter despair when BJ set out his roadmap and there was no roadmap for Scotland. I left my local area for a walk for the first time in months. I’d just had enough.
I have relatives in London who have have been carrying on as normal since February. Meet friends indoors etc. I have got quite cross with them. Everyone is at the end of their rope now.

I do agree the SG didn't get the message about coming out of lockdown right. It made an awful lot of folk give up.

Which I don't blame anyone for.

Are our cases higher than elsewhere in the UK? That's not how I read it from travelling tabby with the 4 nations comparison? But I could be reading it wrong

The other issue is the message of zero covid, we all know that will never happen.

Then throw in the history from last summer, everything was 2 weeks behind England, she really has pushed people's patience to the limit.

I was initially cheered by the road map, but then a friend said I wonder when we're all allowed to be together again - group of 5 of us.

Checked and at no point is that possible even at the end, either inside or out. So what's the point of complying if I'm never going to be allowed to see my friends in a group together.

There's one sure way out of this - vaccination- and my LA Lothian seems to be slower than just about anywhere else. I'm increasingly frustrated that SG continues to spend time and effort lecturing us rather than putting some of that expertise into allowing the vaccination program to roll out as quickly as possible rather than actively blocking people getting their second dose.

It's so difficult to judge the effectiveness of lockdown when people haven't been keeping to it. People are having hairdressers and beauticians in. People are going to their mate's to watch the football. People are having dinner with their parents. People are having parties in air b&bs. This is undoubtedly a minority, but it's happening. But they're also lying about it, so it's very difficult to gauge the extent of it.

@ssd
OK but i don't think 140 out of 100,000 is hellish (not ideal but not out of control) especially if people aren't needing to go to hospital. And some of these numbers may be from the routine testing people are now having to do if they work in certain professions. Without context it's not possible to judge

Everything has got warped - last March / April we had no idea how many people had Covid as there was no widespread testing. So we have nothing to compare to.

Yes, our cases are highest of all 4 nations.

But we are past counting in this method really, we need to using the also flawed icu and deaths figures instead.

It's time to stop this and return to normal life.

You can judge it against places where they didn’t do lockdown, or just for a couple of weeks. Such as Florida. The outcomes are no worse.

In any event, whether one considers it a good thing or a bad thing people are sick of it and won’t keep complying. The SG will be forced to lift restrictions or at best look foolish, at worst be hit in the election.

But they're also lying about it, so it's very difficult to gauge the extent of it.

There will have been some people who continued meeting up throughout the pandemic.

They are not the problem (well they are but it was also expected). The problem is the people who are now doing it, and doing it openly. These are decent people who are fed up.

I'm not saying they are sensible - they are doing things I wouldn't chose to do but as mentioned the messaging was all wrong?

What is the earliest date that most restrictions could be lifted in Scotland? Can you answer me that?

The messaging is off kilter with reality.

I have to laugh when I see that on 2nd April Stay at Home becomes Stay Local and you're officially allowed to go out for non essential purposes.

Roads are rammed around here. It was impossible to park at Cramond as so busy yesterday. When we finally got parked at Silverknowes the front was absolutely heaving. Last week we made it across to Cramond Island which was heavily populated by folks with mostly Glasweigan accents.

Last Tuesdays messaging was a bit better than first time round, but I've certainly lost faith that any of it will happen in the stated time frame and anyway endgame still doesn't let me see my group of friends so what's the point.

Probably 140 in 100,000 cases isn't that bad. But its the ramifications of it all, the endless lockdown Glasgow seems to have been in.

@ssd exactly. It’s not working. Time for a change

@WouldBeGood, I know. But I've no clue what we should be doing. Everything i think backfires somewhere else.

@icanboogieboogiewoogie I think if the SG gave more sensible freedoms and a sensible route map then people would be more cooperatives.
For instance why not allow more than four people to meet outside, in fact why not remove all restrictions outdoors as it’s so much safer, then people would be more likely to meet outside than inside. If both are banned people will think if they are breaking rules they might as well just go inside. I’m not saying this is logical or helpful for case numbers but it’s the way peoples brains work.

@ssd hopefully if we can get everyone vaccinated and not import any new variants before we’ve updated the vaccine we won’t have to worry too much. That’s my hope anyway. But I agree it’s all so hard

I think there reality of the English roadmap is that people have their eyes on the prize so are working hard to get there.
The SG rhetoric of too early we will see no aim and the delay in releasing the info means that many people have given up or gone there is little point anymore.

When I heard the English roadmap I thought it was stupid, giving folks dates. And there were so many threads here say how great things were going back to normal in June. I really thought it was going to be counter productive. But seeing folks reactions to the SG roadmap, makes me think maybe it was better in keeping folks spirits up.

I agree having dates means there is something definite to aim for. And also, if those dates slip, they will have to justify and explain that. Not having dates initially meant we could be "just another 2 weeks"ed to infinity, with nothing more than "it's not safe yet". Though with no explanation as to when "safe" is. I still don't really understand why we are still shut down til the 26th...more than a month away. If we meet the criteria for tiers now, why can't we move to them? What's going to be different in a month? Except we will have higher numbers then, purely as more mixing takes place for schools and so on. Will that mean we can't move to tiers then as numbers are increasing even with the "stay local" message in place?... It's doing my head in a bit, really.

Yes the German lockdown has always allowed for two households mixing indoors through out.

he SNP misjudged the messaging, every announcement has been doom laden with an announcement of what you can't do and what there will be no dates for eg

• no clear date for RUK travel (which is a joke given case numbers, hospitalisation a and vaccinations.

• no clear check list for what needs to happen for international travel to resume

• no target dates for 'actual normal' not shitty covid normal.

Every celebration about vaccine numbers has been laced through with mealy mouthedness to avoid the Uk gov having any credit.

I can't blame the football fans after a year of this, and I have a sneaking admiration for all the anti lockdown covid protestors - my very law abiding DH has said he feels like breaking the rules. I looked to see if pigs were flying out the window.