Guilt Free Railing Four

[WouldBeGood]

The tone stays low and the railing goes on

*reminder

The twin doc - Zand, Chris, whoever - was talking about this on the telly this morning. It's correlation not causation. He said that people who had had the vaccine probably went on to choke on their food or be knocked over by a car, but just because something happens after a vaccine it doesn't mean it is CAUSED by the vaccine. He also said that people develop clots spontaneously all the time. Not commonly, but it happens. So not to be worried.

Personally, I would have the AZ jab tomorrow if offered. Not concerned about the clotting risk in the slightest. It's not even like the contraceptive pill where DVT or blood clots IS an established risk, and we all pop our pills happily because the benefit outweighs the risk.. this is just the same.

The benefit way outweighs the not even proven "risk".

@RaspberryCoulis yes that's what reassures me. What I'm confused about is if it's really that simple why have so many countries now paused?

It's a real blow to people's trust.

I’m confused by Germany more than anything this morning they were saying it was safe nothing to worry about then 3pm it’s halted. What aren’t the SG telling us.

But it's not... it's like Germany saying that they wouldn't be using the AZ in the over 65s because the data wasn't there. Or France saying it was practically useless. And then retracting that saying that actually, they'd looked at the data and the AZ was fine. Meanwhile the bad publicity means people across Europe aren't turning up for their "useless" jabs.

This is JUST the same. Rather than relying on the AZ/British data, governments are employing the "covering their own arses" tactics by stopping using AZ. Now it might be that those particular governments have an ample supply of Pfizer, or Moderna, or whatever other vaccine, so weren't actually using much AZ anyway. We're not told what % of vaccines given in Denmark were AZ anyway. Were the Danish using 90% AZ and 10% Pfizer, in which case them yanking the AZ would be a big move. But if Denmark were using 80% Pfizer, 12% Moderna and 8% AZ, not a big deal. But spun into a big deal by the media.

UK scientists are telling us not to worry. Given that I don't have various science PhDs and years of experience in the scientific world, I don't think I know better than they do.

It's Boris's baby really. SG might pause it too. I think he'll need to make an announcement or something.

I believe it's safe btw and also would have it tomorrow as well but there's clearly something going on.

Other countries have scientists too. If they are advocating pausing then I can understand why people would be spooked.

I have every faith in the vaccine but I'm genuinely flummoxed about what's going on here.

That’s true raspberry I forgot they backtracked on the over 65s thing in Europe. Guess it makes sense they want their own specialists to see the data.

Our French friends are outraged at the slowness of their vaccine rollout. They say its Political to cover up their incompetence in August. As they don’t have enough vaccine to press on, so saying this may appease the population and when stocks improve they’ll say, best to check but ok now like the over 65 debacle earlier.

I’m inclined to agree given our experts are saying the blood clot issue is what they’d expect in normal times, some say even less than normal ATM.
Someone asked what the vaccine numbers are for Pfizer v AZ this is up to today.

My view is still that this is a EU v UK thing. The EU wanted UK to completely fail without their guiding hand so it suits them to try to discredit a Uk success story, especially as PP says if they are only using minimal amounts of AZ or they need to cover a delay in roll out. All very convenient.

Someone posted this on another thread ,

This is what I heard on the radio(in Ireland) about half an hour ago. It was 3 things, blood clots, low platelets, and hemorrhaging together. I was making dinner so only half listening but the Norwegian speaking said that it was unusual to find all 3 together, then for it to happen to 4(I think) relatively young people all after having the AZ vaccine warrents checking. It just a case of DVT.

@RaindropsSplashRainbows

All the talk of DVT has had me running up and down the stairs!

Haha! I know what you mean! Me too...

I'm kind of reassured by the UK "line" on this. Other countries are of course entitled to do whatever they want, but it does seem that they are generally less concerned about the speed of their vaccine programmes. So can hold back a bit on one vaccine just to "do their own research". I don't think it's political as such, but I'm really not sure what more research they can do than the developers did during its development. As they said, if a vaccine is given to 15 million people, some will develop illnesses or issues totally randomly. Some may be knocked over by a bus coming out of the vaccine centre, but it's not claimed that the vaccine caused that! I know the 3 symptoms together is unusual, but not given such huge numbers of participants, surely?

I'm usually a bit prone to panic on medicine side effects but I can't get excited about this, so many people have had first doses and been fine including some extremely frail.

I remember my IT colleague got a dvt when he was 28, no risk factors, just one do those things that can happen.

At this rate British people will be the safest for some time to come, it does look like the EU finding someone to blame for their dismal roll outs.

its definitely political. They don't want to show Brexit as a success (at least with regards to vaccines)

Maybe, but Norway paused their programme first did they not? Or were one of the earlier countries anyway. They're not in the EU.

The clotting incidence is almost the same for both Pfizer and AZ and is tiny.

No deaths attributed to either vaccines.

I’m feeling hopeful for today’s announcement as a Glasgow Live has turned against Ms Sturgeon 😃

Oops, extra a

Yeah my friend got a dvt she was 19.

Am completely convinced by the safety of the vaccine

I always listen to Chris smith he is very sound

Covid has given a lot of people blood clots

Lots of medicines have side effects but we take that risk

Sun is shining. Hoping for something concrete today. Would be nice to do something with the kids over the holidays.

Not getting my hopes up at all

Nah me either @user1487194234 it will no doubt be shite my positivity lasted all of 20 minutes this morning

BBC reporting not to expect any change but maybe some dates.